Shipmate,

I could be wrong but I’ve never heard of different batches of Type 42s having different flight deck sizes. Do seem to recall this about the Type 22 however. Any chance you meant Type 22?

No, the Batch 1 and 2 where the shorter version and the batch 3 are wider and much longer and the flight decks are much larger on the Batch 3’s when compared to the rounded FD’s of the earlier batches. A T22 is a different beast altogether and was designed to have the space to operater much larger Helo’s such as the Sea King, which they did.;)

Replacing the SK

I have it on good authority, from someone who is likely to be involved in the process, that RAF SAR is being considered for a PFI initiative, largely based on the success of the rotary training PFI.

Hopefully the brief against which interested parties will tender will detail things like operational requirements (aircraft range, response times expected etc).

Assuming RAF SAR might be needed under situation of combat, I wonder if the whole RAF SAR is likely to be outsourced via PFI, or just the “peacetime” SAR element – in which case who/what would do the job in time of conflict, should downed crew need extraction from conflict zones?

Or do alternative RAF “SAR” provisions already exist to cover case of conflict?

Paul F

SAR in the UK would attend what ever the emergency is within the SAR Zone OK. With regards to WAR, should that arise around the UK then the SAR service would become part of one of the services under MOD control anyway. What we are taking about it the CSAR that is needed in conflict zones away from the UK and the Home SAR role that can be covered with a mix of civ owned but part mil operated to meet our day to day needs. It will be as mentioned many times already an extension of the current MCA contact but with one supplier with modern kit to do the job. There are several groups going after it. UK gets modern SAR and the mil keep the experience of how to do the business. It’s CSAR that will be the big thing in the Military but i guess the RAF will want to keep that under their wing even though the RN trains for the role too.:diablo:

Thanks for that Shipmate knew it was one off them 😮 So will we be getting a new Whiskey bravo and India juilet then?Why AW-139 can they even do SAR roles plus the Sourthen is not as short as you may think the other day Whiskey Bravo was called to Beachy Head from portland as India Juilet was busy else where and flew back to portland with the same fuel but does the AW-139 have the same range as the Sea King?

The Puma’s are getting to be upgraded to MK2’s 😉 I think the Griffin would be a great replacement for the Super Lynx and be great for SAR.

The who Idea for Military SAR was if a RAF jet or RN , Army chopper crashed the SAR would be sent out and a Nimrod would be there flying above thats there main role the 2nd role is for Cillivans ( like the recent floods no HM chopper was sent only RAF ) I think We should keep Military SAR for many years to come as they deal with Land and Sea as the HM Coastguard just deal with the Sea.

James

Well the AW139 is smaller but still better than a Griffen as more power and greater range too with a cabin that will take 15 adults. The range and endurance is good for the class with a 1000km+ range with a 5hr+ endurance which will do nicely for the area it covers. They are a much faster craft and will be able to cover the area in a shorter time. A good choice I think and it meets the contact set out by the MCA.

Most future aircraft will be S92’s as they cover a wider area and they will have lots of experience of type by the time the future of SAR is decided.:diablo:

Future SAR

Thanks Shipmate, I was about to make the same remark, i.e. S-92s for northern areas, and AW-139s for the shorter range southern areas. It could be argued to make sense for the RAF to simply get COMR S-92s (civil owned, military operated). This has the benefit of not needing to buy the airframes upfront, but without a lot of the PFI nonsense – when its done right, its just a normal lease deal. PFI has been shown to be a disaster, but it remains very attractive for the government, since it effectively allows off-the-books borrowing. It does, however, cost much more in the long run, as they are finding now, as all the late ’90s Blair/Brown-esque PFIs are beginning to show just how much they’re actually costing!

I do hope there is a competition for medium helos next year, though I don’t hold out much hope, but I wouldn’t want any of them diverted to SAR use. The troops actually need the helos, deployable and usable, especially if the Pumas are withdrawn. I still think that one of the dumber decisions of the government was to buy the Future Lynx, which lacks both cargo/pax capacity, and real hot and high performance. A much better bet would have been either more Merlins, or something like NH-90s, or even a re-engined Puma (get IAR in Romania to build us a few new Pumas, with RTM-322 engines?). :diablo:

Yes glad to see someone else thinking sence at long last, be good idea if we could have similar thinking folk working in the MOD! Having been where the helo’s work a simple airborne 4 tonner is what the troops want and one of the best at the present is the Sea King Mk 4 used by CHF which often goes and goes and always comes up tops when compared to even the youth one. It’s cheap easy to repair and as the RN has been told lot’s of spares around to keep them going for many more years with little real cost when compared to more expensive types.

Yes rather have more newer, more capable helo’s in service than all the fast jets that will most likely stay in storage for many years as only just over 100 Typhoon’s will be in the front line at ony one time with the RAF. A good replacement for the Puma (NH90 fits the bill) and then a similar helo for the RN too later (NH 90 as it will be around for a long time and many NATO states are going to use it). Come on UK MOD let’s get the shopping list right and give the lad’s the kit they really need NOW.:)

heavy lift for NATO

I sure hope not.

We now already have a bunch of NATO countries leasind An-124s for a couple of years , instead of going for the new NATO C-17 force…
The C-17 is built by a NATO nation, the An-124 isn’t.

In addition, why go for Mi-26 when you can develop something? Eurocopter should have the knowledge to do this, and it would make an economic sense… Having a reliable, up to western standards heavy lift helicopter can’t be bad.

It would seem we are doing a bit Soviet bashing here once more. Having been on this side of the wore all my life, I have however had several good opportunities to fly in them Russian Helo’s and they are every bit as good as our’s and in many cases better. Much better suited to transporting people and material than many of the western one’s. cheaper and easier to maintain too, which all goes a long way when working hard.

The Mi26 would do the job well and we could easily build all the bits this side so ensuring a good constant supply of parts for them. The numbers for the 2 states would be well sub 100 and anything less than that would be just mad to try and build from fresh. I say if you really want such a unit then go for it and get it off the shelf.

As for NATO using Russian aircraft to move kit around, it has been noted the USA and UK also had to as they were a bit short themselves in the past and those lifters are just the ticket when you need them.

Anyway it will be well into the future before they decide one way or another and since the West has nothing to offer, I know where I would go a shopping.:)

Is it possible to have a retractable ski jump?

Yes but the cost would go up a fair amount and as the ramp is curved it would not be flat on deck when retracted. A simple bolt on ramp would do and of say a lower angle than seen on Western CVS’. 🙂

Mi 26

Well all depends what they are going to use them for. They are so much bigger than anything in the West and have the capacity to lift what the customer would like and the updates I expect would be better systems management to reduce operating cost (smaller crew) and you can add on the self defence stuff with ease as has already been done. Yes been in one too and goes well for such a big chap.

It’s a good bit of kit and does what it says on the can. It will be some time though as other Helo’s are coming on line (NH90) for those looking at it and that is where they are spending the funds just now.

Anyone got the software to make one up in either or both French and German colours….. Nice to see:)