Siddar, I had the two transposed. It’s corrected.
Freehand, the V-22 is a higher level machine. These two are squad transports.
Ok that makes sense.
How does BA609 cost half as much as S97 when current estimated costs of BA609 is 30 million for a non militarized version?
Integration of Meteor would mean death of AMRAAM program…
Not likely there is a large difference in both cost and range between the two.
Was wondering what was happening with Meteor on F35. Nice to see there working on internal carage as well.
Interesting that no one is willing to fund integration of it on F35? Does that mean no one wants it or does it mean they think benefit to MBDA of integration are so high that company should fund it itself. Maybe a case where they think LM should be paying for it.
Plane just looks to wide to be a mach 2+ in my totally non expert opinion.
Every other mach 2+ plane seem to follow a longer narrower approach.
It is neither, it is total cost per target destroyed.
Well that’s the end of manned aircraft except for in low threat environments then isn’t it? It’s a fight between missiles and UAV’s for which can be the most cost effective for any given mission.
True there are both higher and lower cost trainers.
What aircraft still in production compete with it in the same weight class?
I think the idea in regards to trainers is to be lower cost compared to other more expensive options.
US government has bought far weirder things then Scorpion in the past.
The EMB-314 at MTOW is lighter than a completely clean Textron Scorpion, we are looking at a twin engined AMX/A4 sized combat jet against a 50% smaller (area) single engine Turboprop, the diference in costs is not “peanuts”, its massive. The only chance that this “Scorpion” has is the Congress to force it down the USAF throat, no one else is going to buy it without the Pentagon ordering it, and the chances of that happening are slightly better (but just) than North Korea being invited to be part of the JSF team.
It will end up like the Scaled Composites ARES, unfortunately because its a pretty neat concept.Cheers
Three key points that could lead to success for this plane.
One US buys some.
Two US foreign military aid is used to support sales to other countries.
Three plane has a low cost global maintenance system in place and also plane has a reasonable purchase cost.
If the above three items fall in place then there is no reason this plane can’t find a market.
they have the quoted price of the fa-18, f-35 and f-22 wrong.. happy give details to those that can’t work it out from the various sar eg $78.4m isn’t the recurring or non-recurring fly away cost “Unit fly-away cost of the F-18E, as included in the US Navy FY07 budget request, is $78.4 million per aircraft.”
They have also used a undervalued euro based on euro lowest values over the past five years not its average. You need to add about 10% to prices of all the European planes to compensate for that.
Not my opinion. That’s what they’ve basically done.
Compare a European airforce Orbat for 1989 and compare it to what they have in 2013. Forces have been reduced anywhere up to 70-90% for Eastern Europeans and up to 75% for Western Europeans.
Even compare a US orbat in 1991 with 2013.
Do you and Scooter pay any attention to airforces or is it just mindless F-35 worship?
Your statement went far beyond just supporting the cuts that have been made and clearly suggested even more. My question is do you really believe that? If so why do you not make similar arguments in other threads? If you actually believe what you said then why do you come to a forum full of military nerds who want to talk about airplanes? When your view is essentially so political that you have no desire but to see all those aircraft programs shut down and money spent on social program instead.
Sometimes posters here seem to forget what forum they are posting on it seems. They make arguments aimed towards a more political audience are they state clearly incorrect facts aimed at a more low information audience then those on this forum. Things that they should clearly know will be ripped apart when posted here. Personally I don’t shift my arguments on topics from forum to forum I just adjust my use of curse words to be inline a given boards standards mostly so I don’t really bump into the above problem often.
Exactly.
Spending huge amounts on military means less money for schools, hospitals, health clinics, roads, rail, airports, sewerage etc etc.
So why do you only bring this topic up in F35 threads? So your basic position is Europe should simply shut down there air forces and spend the money on social programs?
Why do F-35 fans think the sole purpose of a country is to fly F-35s and that all other defence functions are secondary to F-35s?
Stop with the insults and blatant lies. It just shows how weak your argument is.
Actually the infantry batallion and support vessel is far more useful. Except F-35 procurement means infantry batallion and support vessel become history.
NATO gets a lot more value out of Navy ships for anti-piracy work and humanitarian relief as well as boots on the ground in places like Afghanistan and Iraq.
Look how the planes are going to be used. Most likely they will never be used in a high intensity conflict. For medium and low intensity conflict, 4.5th generation is fine.
And if current NATO anti-interventionism becomes long term, then any combat jets become less useful. You keep them around in case of WWIII.
And remember prior to 1994, NATO jets seldom deployed anywhere.
Which is why F-35 or even Eurofighter/Rafale might not be the right choice especially if it means gutting overall capability.
It could be a better option for someone like Denmark is:
1. Agreement with Germany or Norway to patrol airspace.
2. Denmark to provide some crews/maintainers to joint fighter squadron
3. Denmark to invest in additional special operations or naval vessels or light infantry.
4. Denmark could also invest in Joint NATO capabilities such as NATO Strategic Transport unit or Training or EW or whatever.Same applies to other small forces.
Honestly I would buy F35 and Transport aircraft and let the rest go except for some infantry and a small coast guard. F35 is so you can play with bigger countries in a offensive role, transport aircraft so you will always have a low risk function on joint operations where you want to avoid being involved in shooting but at same time providing a valuable asset. Infantry because you will always need a army. Maybe a medium range AA and ABM system for potential home air and missile defense. What ever is left after that throw at the navy.
I simply don’t buy the argument that small countries cant afford a 40-50 sized force of 100 million dollar/euro fighters.