dark light

Siddar

Forum Replies Created

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 227 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • in reply to: SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4 #2183708
    Siddar
    Participant

    Not what you’ve been arguing for. You propose that the USA should stop country A buying something from the USA & selling it to country B, & country B buying stuff from the USA to put into things made in country B. What has that got to do with protecting US jobs?

    You’re proposing banning US exports, to ‘punish’ customers for not buying more. Doh!

    Not really was just informing the poster that support for free trade in US may not be as strong as he thinks it is.

    American public supports free trade even less than I do it seems.

    in reply to: SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4 #2183720
    Siddar
    Participant

    @siddar, get back to your board games!
    The power and wealth of the west is and has been built on free trade, I’m sure US government is very happy that they export high tech components. I do not think that SAAB or Boeing care on what side of the border a great product is made as long as it can contribute to their own product.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-03-24/free-trade-opposition-unites-political-parties-in-bloomberg-poll

    in reply to: SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4 #2184494
    Siddar
    Participant

    The Gripen exists because the Swedish government choosed to invest in it in the eighties, end of story. The main American components on the aircraft, the engine and the fly by wire system were chosen through competition, more specificaly the F404 faced a version of the Turbo Union RB199, and the GD fly by wire faced an offer from MBB.

    OH the Ebil Swedes! How dare they choose non American components for their fighter?!
    No, it was not “a political act against US”, thats Sweden, not North Korea. The equipments were chosen through competition or there was a requirement from their main export customer, Brasil (see the Wide Area Display, by AKAER, or the Brasilian Data Link).
    If somehow the US would block the sale of the F414 to Sweden, then GE and SAAB would be worse for it, Eurojet would be delighted.

    Protectionism is keeping products out of a countries domestic market. US blocking export of Gripen has nothing to do with protectionism.

    If Brazil was responsible for the equipment sourcing choices then a dual message should be sent to both Saab and Brazil by blocking Gripen exports.

    GE can go to hell as well by the way they’re not really an american company anymore.

    in reply to: SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4 #2184582
    Siddar
    Participant

    Siddar, look at the pictures again, they are surely directed to different markets, the last one showing the large participation of Brazil companies in Gripen construction are, IMO, ment as a “convincing” PR argument to select it instead of Rafale or SH.

    Take the canopy for example, it’s still made in US I think but just not mentioned, same for other little bits here and there, they are just not shown. The us total parts procentiges are somewhat lower though.

    Whatever… A big chunk, the engine is US, about $20-25 million a piece. To think that Us would start a trade war over fuel tank sealants and some mechanical parts and lose export is stupid…

    BTW, Sweden(Saab) export quite a lot of military equipment to US Army and AF so…

    Very likely you’re right but I’m taking both at face value until proven otherwise.

    Engine is not 20-25 million not even half that, 4.5 million seems to be the price per engine.

    in reply to: SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4 #2184583
    Siddar
    Participant

    Prove it

    It will be up to Saab to prove that it isn’t case to the US government when they ask for export permission.

    in reply to: SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4 #2184638
    Siddar
    Participant

    as long as it has a US engine, the US can block the export, so, removing smaller US-made parts for euro-made ones (and a few israeli ones) doesn’t remove the US capacity to intervene in the choice of customers. However, If the initial equipments were US-made, it may have been also because they were more readily available. If SAAB gets better deals from other manufacturers, the problem is on US side (companies, not government) and is part of normal competition.

    If the USA tried to block the gripen to protect US companies for a european product, besides being illegal, it would trigger a response that would cost the US much more than the benefit for participating in these few airframes

    The global aviation industry does not work like that. Replacing all US content except engines on a plane is not a economic action.

    in reply to: SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4 #2184649
    Siddar
    Participant

    The primary duty of the American government is to act in the interests of America. The primary duty of the directors of a company is to act in the interests of the company. The American government has no duty to act in the best interests of Swedish industry. SAAB does has no duty to act in the best interests of the American government. What exactly do you see as the problem with SAAB acting in the best interests of SAAB?

    Yes Saab should act in the best interest of Saab and US should act in the best interest of US.

    So we both agree that US government should block all future Gripen exports? Because said Gripen exports no longer serve US interests as result of the intentional reduction in US content on Gripen.

    in reply to: SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4 #2184659
    Siddar
    Participant

    If you sell military equipment to other countries, every sale is political by nature. It increases the military capability of the customer country.

    Have you got a screw loose? If Volvo export a car to a customer in France or Chile or America that could have been supplied by an American manufacturer, is that intolerable? What do you suggest the USA does? Nuke Sweden?

    You are correct every military sale is a political act. Every time US approves a Gripen export sale it is a political act. Saabs removal of US content was also political act as well. Now explain why US should not react to the political action taken against it by Saab.

    Please also remember the sequence of events here is Saab taking actions that harm US interests and a potential US response.

    The only ones with a screw loose would be those who think US should not respond to Saab’s actions.

    in reply to: SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4 #2184669
    Siddar
    Participant

    [edit] Jakob – you posted while I was typing the text below. You’re absolutely right. [/edit]

    That’s a stupid policy. It would guarantee that other European countries would act to completely remove US technology from any products they wanted to export. There’s already concern over US blocking of exports for commercial, not strategic, reasons.

    And ‘spite’? Do you think that playground politics are appropriate for great nations?

    Do you not see the internal contradiction in what you’ve written? “I don’t think … was based [on] competition. … entirely political … to try and increase sales”. Doh!

    A political choice to court sales is still a political act not a economic one.

    But please feel free to try and explain how US letting US content on Gripen be massacred for purely political reasons serves US interests?

    You seem to think Saab should be able to make political decisions to court sales based on political reasons but US should for some reason not defend itself.

    Saab knew from day one of Gripen that they would never export a Gripen without US approval it seems someone in Saab has forgotten that.

    But really do try and make a coherent argument for why US should tolerate what Saab has done.

    in reply to: SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4 #2184720
    Siddar
    Participant

    Where did you get the idea that “those parts” are “based” on American non compliant ITAR hardware?
    Last time I’ve checked the Swedes are entirely free to use things like a new Israeli MAWS or a German radio in their new version of the Gripen.

    The only reason the Gripen exists is because US granted technology on very favorable terms. The resulting plane had a large amount of US content so that transfer of technology was beneficial to US economically. Now Saab seems to have undertaken a program to deliberately reduce US content. The newest version with almost no US content does not serve US national interests as it competes with US manufactured planes and provides no real benefit to the US. If US has ability to block sales of this plane then it should do so simply out of its own self interest and an also a bit of spite for being used like it appears to have been in this case.

    And just to add no I don’t think the shift in origins of part shown was based on competition. It appears to have been an entirely political act against US. To try and increase sales by courting the less pro american governments.

    in reply to: SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4 #2184746
    Siddar
    Participant

    And plenty more besides, assuming its built on a pattern similar to the legacy Gripen.

    https://militaryaviationnews.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/87625-saab-ja39-gripen.jpg

    The good (Or bad thing, as some want to see it…) is that Saab can source parts from where the customer wants.

    Here a more up to date picture…

    http://i67.tinypic.com/ic4ac9.jpg

    Here we can can see that Sweden “controls” the radar(Selex antenna among other things.), FCS, Swedish data link, EWS etc.

    Better hope president Trump doesn’t see the above or Saab may well lose that last american part of Gripen.

    Life could get very ugly for Saab if those pictures start making the rounds in Washington. Mass replacement of US parts is certainly grounds enough for US to block export of US technology those parts are based upon.

    in reply to: Canadian Fighter Replacement #2187429
    Siddar
    Participant

    Gripen – could not be more wrong. This is not a mid life upgrade its pretty much a brand new plane.

    Typhoon will be in service for 25 years plus with Germany. They will have to invest in upgrades. Same for the UK.

    The French are committed to the Rafale for the next 25 years.

    The teen series are at risk of course. I expect there will be F15s flying for 20 to 25 years in the US and the Super will fly until they have a replacement. Again you are looking at 15 to 20 years at least.

    No Gripen is a upgrade of a existing aircraft with a very small fleet size. At a certain point you simply have to move on to a new plane.

    Rafale maybe in French service for 25 years. But upgrades will slow to almost nothing well before that. Buying a plane that will be in service with Canada twenty years after it leaves French service is not a good idea. The same applies to F18.

    The Typhoon has suffered from the slow pace of upgrades there is major upgrade happening now but it will likely be the last major upgrade.

    F15 and F16 are now likely seeing there last major upgrades funded by US government beyond that most upgrades will fall upon a increasingly smaller number of users.

    The reason F18 purchase for Canada has worked out for the past 35 years is because they bought the planes at roughly the same time as US navy. The upgrade path of Canada, US, Australia were all roughly the same. If you choose a existing plane that has already reached close to the 50% mark of its originating countries intended service life or more. You face the risk of funding upgrades by yourself to a orphaned platform.

    in reply to: Canadian Fighter Replacement #2187497
    Siddar
    Participant

    Late service life support for these aircraft is also going to be a major issue in regards to keeping them current.

    F16, F15, Typhoon, and Gripen are likely on there last major upgrade programs financed by there developing countries.

    F18 and Rafale will force a choice by US navy and France to decide do they wish to commit to sixth generation aircraft or keep upgrading existing planes. Past 2030 I think their view will tilt toward a new aircraft.

    The F35 is the only certain choice that will receive upgrades post 2030.

    in reply to: Canadian Fighter Replacement #2187508
    Siddar
    Participant

    You don’t seem to grasp the fact that Canada is a massive country with a tiny defense budget and needs to be able to buy a capable plane it can actually afford to purchase, maintain and fly without crippling every other aspect of our national defense. It’s not a difficult equation.

    Yes this is exactly why they will buy the F35 instead of waiting for a sixth generation fighter or a fourth generation aircraft that will become obsolete halfway through its likely forty years of service.

    in reply to: Canadian Fighter Replacement #2187544
    Siddar
    Participant

    We just had the first transatlantic crossing by F35 accompanied by a Typhoon and the Typhoon had three external tanks to the zero external for the F35.

    The typhoon had to refuel more often then F35. The F35 was in very close to a combat configuration just add missiles and ammunition for the guns and it would be ready. The Typhoon was not in anything close to a combat ready state.

    My question is if Gripen out ranges the F35 as long as Gripen has tanks. Then what is causing the Typhoon to under perform so badly in a similar scenario?

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 227 total)