Qsaark, has been the instigator in this thread and is now posting full posts on his obscure and fallacious version of a thousand years of Indian history and incidental wrongs that happen everyday in every country to garner some support for his defective ideas.

If you want, pick a country and ill post links too for homicides and the gruesome like that exist annually. No country is a utopia and psychologically defective minds exist in all communities. The problem with pakistan is that such homicidal tendencies are inherent due to a pervading extremist form of islam that’s being taught in the madrassah’s.
Hundred’s of muslims are dying every month in pakistan due to radical suicide bombings and attacks…but this doesn’t faze qsaark. Red mosque anyone?
Benazir Bhutto died yesterday and he explains it as she was a conspirator to a “foreign” agenda. 🙁
As recently as 1971…where close to a million poor muslims were massacred by superior pakistani muslims …still has qsaark harping that all is well in pakistan and among their teachings. One lInk Qsaark….just one :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA4vsk3urO4

Its the numbers qsaark, the large numbers that occur in pakistan daily as oppose to the incidental crimes that occur in any nation.

I could also with my basic knowledge of Indian history refute point by point the defective arguments qsaark has put up…but whats the point? He has specifically chosen this thread to distract from Indian missiles and have it closed . Open up a new thread qsaark as farooq as pointed out and the debate shall go on there. Unfortunetly the chance is slim as he knows the mods will sweep down and close any further discussions on this thread.

Originally Posted by coldfire2005
Dassault to Offer Rafale for India Fighter Deal

For me, The Rafale seems to be the peferct choice for the IAF acquisition. Love to see it in IAF colors. Not because the IAF has already got a impressive track record with the Mirage and the ground infrastructure alreadly exists. The IAF will be continually able to upgrade the Mirage to 2005 and beyond. The IN also might be interested in a Rafale M for the the naval carriers.
Add the support said by the french to initially integrate a Kaveri onto the Rafale and vice versa onto the Tejas.
The Tejas along with the Rafale and MKI would make a awesome fleet.
It can’t happen soon enough…….

Some amazing shots from aeroindia.org

In other news taken from last thread and various members who attended the show (Rak, Shiv, Harry @ BR )

Tejas prototype PV4, is to take to the air in a few months….twin seat.

The LSP production series 1 is to be handed over this month, with another 4 to join this year. The rest will join next year.

Production of the 1st 20 is to commence this year with 24 F404 GE IN 20 having being ordered.

Weaponisation is to begin this year with the EL – 2032 radar for which 4-5 sets have been ordered.

MMR is slated to join on LSP 3 this year.

Tejas will make its first night sortie this year as well

PV2 is undergoing modifications for Elbit HMDS & R-73 integration

Lots of info set to come out but from whats arrived, it definetly seems like the Tejas is roaring sky high….

According to this logic, the USAAF crews in the WWII bombing German or Japanese cities were terrorists, as well? AFAIK, they made no difference between ball bearing facilities, shops, funerals or theaters and we all will agree that attacks on civilian infrastructure were deliberate, not accidental.

Yes, it was a terrorist attack on a large scale and numerous debates have gone on since then whether it was necessary. Lets not forget it was a race towards who was going to develop the atom bomb first. The Germans had already shown their indiscriminate killing of civilians wherever they invaded including multiple and random V2 rocket bombing acts on london city.
And lets not forget the Japanese atrocities on civilians over much of south east asia at the time.

I personally believe that if the Germans or the Japanese developed the bomb first, they would have used it on civilians that they were fighting against.

going by what you said this also makes US and many allied countries terrorists also.for instance last night on the BBC documentary show panorama they were following the actions of a british commando unit fighting the taliban and they were under siege in a village in hellmand and called in artillery strikes and air strikes on “suspected” enemy positions.this was in a village which was populated and not abdanoned,regardless of weither or not taliban fighters were killed in the strikes,innocent civilians homes were being destroyed in these attacks

So the way i see this is a british commando unit got stuck fighting their known enemy in a WAR situation and probably called in air strikes becasue they were in a hole and would have died if not. Their intel in this war scenario told them that the enemy was located at a certain positon and asked them to bomb that area.

While it may be unfortunate that civilian homes and civilians may have died in the encounter, the commando’s did not ORDER the strike on the civilians. In war its unfortuante when civilians are caught in the cross fire, but such is the nature of war. Everyone knows this prior. We can all induct and try to minimise the damage with gps bombs, precise artillary shelling but no equipment is infallable.

If the commando’s ordered indiscrimanate shelling of civilian homes and random killing without an objective, yes they would have been seen as terrorists and be court martialled. They would and can still have to answer for their crimes.

To an extent i agree with Meat, Random acts of mass indiscriminate killing on populations without any warning of how and when to prepare designed to scare and create terror for alterior motives is terrorism and should be distinguished from unfortunate casualties of war.

If the taliban and their support groups stuck to fighting their guerilla warfare on combat troops sent to fight them instead of blowing up buildings and buses with civilians thousands of miles away, i for one would not call them terrorists.

2 cents.

HAL ties up with Rolls Royce

New Delhi, Nov. 7 (PTI): The State-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd has signed an MoU with Rolls Royce, a leading global provider of power systems and services, to collaborate on engine component design and manufacturing in India.

The MoU, which would allow a broader partnership between the two companies, could potentially include a variety of work in India relating to design, manufacture and assembly of components for Rolls Royce engines across various aerospace segments, an HAL release said here.

The MoU was signed at a ceremony in Bangalore on Sunday.

HAL currently manufactures under license the Rolls’ Adour engine for the Jaguar deep penetration strike aircraft of the Indian Air Force. The Adour-871, to be manufactured by HAL, would also power the Hawk Advanced Jet Trainers for India whose deliveries are likely to start next year, it said.

Rolls Royce and US-based Bell Helicopter Textron are also partnering on a proposal to the Indian Army for its Shen Helicopter programme, for which it has offered the Bell-407 helicopter powered by Rolls Model 250 engines. The Shen programme involves the purchase of up to 197 helicopters and a significant number of engines to be manufactured by HAL.

The Rolls Royce, which has had a 70-year-relationship with India, has set up its new wholly-owned subsidiary in Bangalore for the growing volume of engineering work it is sub-contracting to India.

HAL has been a contributor of ring forgings to Rolls Royce for its Trent family of engines and is also involved in repair and overhaul of several Rolls engines like Avon, Dart, Gnome and Adour.

Some info from BR.

The TRDD-50MT engine could be used to power India’s development of a UCAV as posted above.

Russia to power India’s Lakshya

Russia to power India’s Lakshya

October 26, 2006 20:25 IST

Russia will supply rocket engines for India’s unmanned aerial vehicle Lakshya under a $100 million deal although transfer of technology under license could be withheld due to international ban on missile technologies, a media report said on Thursday.

Russian jet engine manufacturer NPO Saturn will supply 200 miniature engines to India for Lakshya UAVs in 2007, according to Kommersant.

“The engines for India with 500 kg thrust will be developed on the basis of TRDD-50MT engine, originally designed for Soviet cruise missiles. Its flight resource will be enhanced from the present 45 minutes to tens of hours,” Kommersant quoted deputy commercial director (exports) of NPO Saturn Igor Grigorie as saying.

According to commercial director of NPO Saturn Vasily Danilov, the first one-year contract with India was signed in April and the design and experiment work is already underway.

All aspects of transfer of license for production of TRDD-50MT are under study by FSVTS, which may not give its nod because of New Delhi’s plans to develop a cruise missile with the range of 600 km and capable of carrying 350 kg payload on the basis of Lakshya.

“Such missiles fall under the MTCR and Russia honours this regime. With licensed production India would uncontrollably put these engines on UAVs and cruise missiles,” an official of FSVTS told Kommersant.

The NPO Saturn officials underscored that at present the deal does not violate Russia’s international obligations under Missile Technology Control Regime as it does not involve transfer of technology.

However, in the next stage of the contract India wants licensed production of these engines in the country and the deal could have a rough time, the daily said.

“We do not rule out setting up licensed production and testing facilities in India,” Danilov was quoted as saying by the daily.

As long as India uses these engines for UAVs or drones, there is no problem in their export, Kommersant quoted sources in Federal Service for Military-technical cooperation, the arms export oversight body.

Remember Harry quoting on the above between the Mig and Mirage :
A quick google of DACT between the two receives :

In air-to-air DACT, the Mirage-2000H is no match for the MiG-29A/B but the in consideration of multi-role capabilities, the trend is reversed. Ironically, HAL was close to the license production of either the MiG-29A or the Mirage-2000H/TH in the late 80s. Around two decades later, it will be producing a derivative of either one.

ACIG : Aero India 2005

Looking at the Mirage squadrons and numbers, im seeing 49 acquired initially with 6 lost to crashes over its 20 year period, making it 43. An additional 10 were delivered in 2004 so overall the Mirage fleet stands at 53.

All are slated for the dash 5 upgrades and most now have refuelling capability as well, my confusion exist as to where the remaining 40 are coming from and who’d be willing to part with theirs…

We got Qatar on with 12 Mirage 2005, leaving a total of 28 to be acquired from France, AdA? Brazil has bought 12 as well.

28 planes and wiki lists france as having 315. What types and from which squadrons and possible year of manufacture would the AdAbe willing to part with?

With an addtional 40 the overall fleet IAF mirage strength would be 93.