‘Made’ but not designed or developed by China.

OMG … we are indeed back in the Kindergarten !

If China put up money to buy PAK FA’s, more resources would be available to move the project along which means both Russia and China would have stealth 5th gen fighters sooner.

You mean, then Russia would have it’s stealthy 5th gen fighters sooner; China alone seems – at least following the latest reports – already close to service-entry and with in comparison to the number of aircrafts build I think china is also ahead.

Indeed, thanks a lot !

By the way and bock to topic … J-11D, J-16 and J-20A spotted at Daocheng-Yading for high-altitude tests.

Deino

Come on people, Byoin is clearly a straight out 100% troll. It took me about one or two of his posts to add him to ignore – a new record. Do the same and everyone will be so much more happy. 🙂

Now, lets try to make a list of things Russia/Ukraine was been very heavily involved in/straight out designed for China in more recent history;

– Y-20, Antonov designed. From 2003 and on.
– Z-10, Kamov designed.
– L-15, clearly designed with Yakovlev assistance or like the two above they did the did basically all the work.

Speculative;

– J-20 might have ex-MiG workers working on it.
– Chinese “Su-34” (dont remember designation) did wind tunnel work in Russia few years back. Or Russian aerodynamics experts in China, something along these lines.
– T-10K-7 bought from Ukraine was basis for J-15, including its “bugs”.

Obviously there isnt lack of Chinese airframes using Russian engines (including J-20) but this list is more on frame design than having subcomponents sold.

…

Indeed and just add the CJ-7/L-7 based on Yakowlev’s Yak-152 to that list as well as the Y-9, the latest heavy-lift helicopter and I’m sure that list is indeed even much longer.

Like I explained in #1887 I’m sure, the Sino-Russian-military cooperation and partnership, is IMO much more healthy and maybe even deeper than officially admitted by both sides.

As such I wish a few here and in other forums might take a reasonable and rational stance to these issues (eg. the Sino-Russian-military cooperation and partnership) and would be more rationale: while on the one side there’s no need to hype or bash such things, it however also means there’s no need to hide or deny the facts.

Deino

I find it laughable and sad. whenever China succeeds in something, somebody will be quick to take credit for it. And it is almost always the Russian Media.
Some things are quite obvious like j-7 and mig-21. but the z-10 is totally unlike anything from kamov. Russian helicopters are large, heavy and big targets. Chinese helicopters are more like European ones. Mig cant design a stealth fighter, but it is supposed to be behind the j-20? totally laughable.

Y-20 looks nothing like any other russian design. Russia has not designed any modern cargo aircraft in over 40 years. everything is still relying on the il76 which is the same era as the c-141 from the 50s!

As for Antonov and China restarting a transport aircraft. it is true but the translations are a bit off. Ukraine and China have very excellent relations. But Ukraine is poor, that is why many Ukrainians study in China now and many Ukrainian women marry Chinese men.
What will happen is that China will buy Antonov and the transport will restart as a Chinese model. Good for both sides.

With Your first part You are correct, but anyway the Kamov-cooperation on the Z-10 and with Antonov on the Y-20 and Y-9 has been confirmed. As such while on the one there’s no need to hype or bash such things, that however also means we do not need to hide or deny them.

Sometimes I wish a few here and in other forums might take a reasonable and rational stance to the Sino-Russian-military cooperation and partnership, which is IMO much more healthy and maybe even deeper than officially admitted by both sides.

By the way, a J-20 spotted at Daocheng-Yading :p

So they are performing high-altitude tests (4,411 m) at Daocheng, located within Sichuan, it is however under the administration of the Garze Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture.

As far as I remember correctly, the Y-20 did the same there in June 2015.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daocheng_Yading_Airport

Deino

Now, Deino, you as the more expert there in chinese matters would please tell me how the introduction procedure of a new model works in these parts of the world:LRIP thre means that development phase is done or is something that imply that the development is still ongoing but they are at such a point to form an operative test unity?
Or to be more clear: have they reached some sort of IOC/ model freezing or we are still talking about prototypes?

Sorry for the late reply and YES – at least as I understand the proceedings in China – they have a different perception of “in service” which is different to a Western initial operating capability (IOC). By Chinese standards, an aircraft is considered to be ‘in use’ when it has obtained its approval/certification and the first examples have been handed over to the troops and so surely true operational testing will continue for some time longer.

Deino