Thanks … by the way some new images – albeit with these damn stupid stamps on it ! ๐ก …. and a happy new year of the snake to all !
Deino
mig29 is nice but can it carry like this all on one engine?
Be careful with such arguments, espicially since this image is simply a stupid PSed-Fake !
Do You have the exact date ??
Quite an interesting analysis:
Deino
Reading this thread it sometimes feels like the blind discussing their favorite color. Many jump quickly on conclusions throwing in buzzwords like “composite” and “supercritical profile”. But only very few seem to have a clue.
Sorry, but – as one of those without a clue like You say – I have that strange feeling You like to keep us “stupid” or You enjoiy that feeling too much of “having a clue” alone ! ๐ก
Deino
When was the second flight ???
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Honestly, how desperate must one be to think that anyone takes this model seriously ????
Or this model …. ?
Honestly I like them ๐ … but anyway they doesn’t matter.
Just in short: Even if I have no estimations, I would be very carefully in using wiki-data.
My problem is, that ..
1. I can’t think of a similar sized more modern (composites, wing, …) aircraft with the same powerplant having such a low capability. (I can’t think that the Chinese are so stupid to make such a fuss only for 25t.)
2. You say “Your estimations”, “it is significantly larger” … please share Your thoughts, since either I’m too stupid or You are wrong, esp. if You ignore to answer to a specific question. It is not smaller and why do You calculate from the wiki-data such a low capability ?
Deino
Maybe because it is significantly larger?
Schorsch, please !!!! ๐ฎ ๐ฎ … simply compare the dimensions ! It has surely a wider fuselage, but overall it is surely not “significantly larger” ?
I’m not sure with what images You make Your estimations … :confused:
Deino
Agreed, but could You please explain why You estimate the Y-20′ OEW to be significantly higher than the Il-76, which results in Your estimated/guessed limited margin between MTOW and OEW that it probably can only carry 20t ???
Deino :confused: :confused:
…
If the margin between MTOW and OEW is so limited that you can only carry 20t, it becomes basically useless. But we neither know MTOW or OEW, but one can make an educated guess …
But just one question … why do You expect the capacity of only 25 t ??? It uses the same engines like the Il-76MD, it has a “similar, maybe not much improved or more modern aerodynamics” … so why sยดdo You expect it to fall so low in comparison to the Candid ?
Deino
Why?
China could by any Russian type and have it in 2 years. The Y-20 will need probably 6 years or more to EIS.
At what price ??? An even longer dependence, most likely again the same problems with deliveries, cost, …. see several other similar contracts or the already done Il-76/-78 contract some years ago. ๐
What is so aerodynamically advanced on the Y-20? Better wing profile helps drag at design Mach number. Apart from that, I can’t see a big improvement.
Even if my layman-eya can’t judge that like You, but is that necessary to be a revolulionary design ?? Like I said I probably can’t decide if the aerodynamics are much more advanced or only ‘on par’, but actuall I can’t think of performances lower or worse than the Il-76MD.
I think the Y-20 will be severely MTOW-limited until it gets a new engine. Basically useless. This indicates that the Chinese aiming at a rather long test campaign.
Yes, but again, why means limited = “basically useless” ?? Especially if it offeres similar or only slightly better – as You say – performances even with the interim engines and only slightly improved airframe. Anyway I can’t think of lower performance in comparison to the standard Il-76MD, especially since it uses the same engines … :confused:
IMO the most important aspect is the wider fuselage …
Deino
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Somewhere down the line there has to be “stealth bomber”…
A strategic bomber seems a while away, if we’re lucky we might have “long range stealth striker” though.
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