No they are not ! Probably the recent four images (J-10 and J-11 over coast + sea) but most of the J-11 images are from older excercises, these J-10A images – esp. those with the J-20 in the background are from late 2012 to 2013 (since both 2001 + 2002 are at the CFTE since some time), the Y-20 images are from the maiden flight (yellow primer) and the taxi tests after painting (just remember that the Y-20 carries since almost one year a huge CFTE-number !!) … and regarding the Lavi-J-10, You know it is not a copy or clone, it might be based on, is technolgically inspired by or anything, but it is not a copy regardless what You Russian sources tell You (just look at the powerplant’s diameter). And that YJ-12 under a JH-7A is a ps-fake !
That’s the point … one or two of Your images are fine, but a whole bunch of J-10B images, several which were already posted here days ago is plain stupid since they don’t add anything to Your post. And what the hell Your Japanese-speaking ability can add to this is well bewyond me … Japanese sources are most often if not always late and biased.
This images is already ages, decades old and no-one denies the Russian or Ukrainian input to several projects, so what’s the point !?
Again the J-10 is called a Lavi by the uninformed media and I’m sure SIBNIA knows the differences quite well … but it’s always a nice story everyone like to hear but simply look at the dimensions, the powerplant, everything besides the general layout is new. It is maybe a bigger brother or call it a refined development of, but not a Lavi-copy, period !
Again old … and most of the already podsted days ago ! … so why again ?
Deino
The pictures you claim i posted and are old are not like you are saying. the Z-20 picture you claim is repeated is not since there were two pictures in Chinese forums, the JH-7B you claim are old, they are not old they pictures are new in fact is the new JH-7B with new tail fin these are new pictures and i know where these Chinese pictures where taken in Chinese language forums.
The picture of Il-76 with WS-20 also has a zoomed photo and the original i posted the original and you the zoomed one
and if you do not believe me check the link
http://www.aerofatos.com/2013/12/china-image-of-jh-7b-prototype.html
Some of the J-11 pictures are new some are old in fact Pinko posted one from Goneless i posted another one. The J-10 picture some are new some are old however photographers take more than one pictures and some are very similar.
In fact the picture of the J-11 on the sight of the J-10 are new and they are dated 2013 december
Video of the second Y-20
Yes a super F16 will kill any doubt or concerns for the US. Everything is there at hand reach to build/heavily upgrade it given there is a full flow of F35 money in the industry.
That way, US/NATO could as well plays the nbr game as well as singing the quality song.Oh.. and by the way, Boeing could do it…
The current Chinese fleet is still years away to catch up with the US, the US has 100 F-35s and 187 F-22s plus B-2s, China at this moment is more of a regional power.
More in line with the nations surrounding it .
This J-11s are more of the actual fleet China has, J-20s and J-31s are still a decade from entering service despite they say these aircraft will enter operational service in 2018, it is doubtful since J-31 is powered with RD-93s and J-20 with AL-31s
J-10s and J-11 are training to match up potential adversaries in the region, but they really form the bulk of China`s current fleet of fighters
Anyone who’s serious about PLA watching would recognize the importance of Russian and Ukranian assistance. The question is how much and when.
As for the Lavi, again we know that China got a LOT of assistance from Israel during the J-10’s development, but simply calling the J-10 a copy would be a gross oversimplification.
SIBNIA does not call it a copy, it simply calls it highly based upon it, but claimed Israeli technicians helped the J-10 program
I do agree, in reality Japan did the same, first they copied western designs and later they started designing, to give you a funny note, the Japanese aircraft of the WWII period were highly influenced by German and American designs, the XF-7-10 engine is the result of the experience gotten in joint ventures by IHI, China is doing the same.
It is nothing bad, to teach you first need to learn, China has learnt from Russia and other sources, it is part of the natural process of tech transfers and a way to reduce R&D expenditures.
Dear MiG-29 !!!
Is it really necessary to upload each and every image You know about the J-10 (and regardless what Russians or some US idiots say it is not a LAVI, just look at the dimensions, period), J-11 or whatever ??? This is mostly a News-Tread and if You like to start a picture-collection, then go ahead in a seperate tread, but it is annoying to skroll down tru pages of – some not even worthless to post since old or simply of bad quality – images !
Deino
Actually most of the pictures i have posted are recent, specially those of J-11s and some of J-10 some are of December 2013, the pictures of Y-20 are also recent and those include those of the WS-20s, the J-10 pictures where Y–20 bacon talks about the Lavi connection in fact are of January 2014.
And remember many people here do not speak Chinese so have limited sourcing for Chinese aircraft pictures i can read Japanese so i can read kanjies of air force in fact the kanjies for Chinese air force are the same in Japanese and Chinese, so why not enjoy a good picture rather than argue?
And about the Russian input (also Ukrainian) a few pictures and recent news tell a lot
One of the guys there is not ethnic Chinese and is easy to see where he is from obviusly not American
here are some good news
http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/179629.html
as you can see Russians and Ukrainians are very deep in the Chinese aerospace Industry, so i guess perhaps the J-10 as SIBNIA says has Lavi pedigree, this is something you do not need to believe but SIBNIA said that.
This are indeed very recent pictures some from December 2013
Some recent picturers of JH-7
What is the basis for your conclusion? I doubt if there is much information on Chinese ECCM capabilities in the public domain.
China is learning with impressive speed, but in many cases is still dependant on foreign technology. For the SD-10 BVR missile, China had to obtain technology for the seeker, rudder-control actuators, and INS from Russian organisations – Agat, Vympel, and NIIP. The PL-9 short-range missile may have used some Ukrainian technology, while the PL-8 was developed on the basis of the Python 3.
The seeker of the HJ-10 air-to-surface missile is thought to be based on a Ukrainian design, while the YJ-91 seems to be a Kh-31 ‘look-alike’ at best.
The situation is better in the field of anti-ship and stand-off missiles. However, the C-802 seems to have had a technical input from France, including the Microturbo TRI-60 engine, which China imported for almost a decade, but now manufactures locally.
Ballistic missiles are probably the area that features the greatest independence, but many SAM designs still show a foreign influence.
In my opinion China is using a similar Technic to Japan to achieve an aerospace Industry, while many people deny the foreign input, the reality is is a good strategy, they first copy, later they create an indigenous version of the foreign aircraft or what ever they can of it and later they start designing
chinese WS9 (QinLing)production line
here a very nice document about the chinese engine industry
http://www.turbineengine.org/pdf/China%20Aerospace%20Propulsion%20Technology%20china2.pdf
I never thought it lookd like the Lavi..but flying over the desert with the light hitting it making it look white.. definitely does
well, it is a Lavi according to most Russian sources and SIBNIA and even american reports
Germany (BMW) was largely responsible (though in co-operation with RR for the reasons you say) for designing & building the BR700 series of turbofans. Now Roll-Royce Deutschland.
Germany also has MTU check page http://www.mtu.de/aero_solutions/en/aviation_industry/index.html
Spain has ITP http://www.itp.es/Sec_home/wf_home.aspx
This diagram shown was from an Andrew Erickson article. And regarding sources it was China Sign Post that posted articles that I drew from on Chinese engine development. It was China Sign Post that identified China’s lagging development of metallurgy processes to support modern engine development. And responses to posts made at SinoDefenseForum, a site you are quite familiar with, further support my claims of China’s attempts to overcome deficiencies in modern engine development. To wit:
“…Key weak points of the Chinese military jet engine industry include: turbine blade production and process standardization. Standardization and integration may be the one area in which the costs of China’s ad hoc, eclectic approach to strategic technology development truly manifest themselves. The Soviet defense industrial base failed in precisely this area: talented designers and technicians presided over balkanized design bureaus and irregularly-linked production facilities; lack of standardization and quality control rendered it “less than the sum of the parts.”
Your opinion is noted and logged. However wishing something can happen does not take the place of something manifesting in reality. China continues to struggle with problems producing alloys necessary for the production of modern jet engines. Further China struggles with quality manufacturing processes.
I base my assessment of Chinese engine development on facts such as those. Feel free to enlighten me on China overcoming these problems
—
Thanks for the link. I am familiar with the site. Since the proof of the pudding is in the eating I maintain by position on Chinese engine development until I see the deployment of an indigenous high-performance jet engine on a Chinese airframe. Until that time its all talk.
WS-20 chinese designed turbofan
China at the moment has achieved a level comparable to Japan in engine technology, while most Chinese will claim things like this
据外国媒体推测，这种大涵道比涡扇发动机已经进入飞行试飞阶段，将在未来5至7年内投入使用。至此，我国成为继美、英、法、俄之后第五个能够独立研制大涵道比高性能涡扇发动机的国家，该型发动机不仅填补了我国航空发动机领域的一项重要空白，更是作为我国航空发动机发展道路上具有里程碑意义的一件大事，可以说，迈过这道坎，中国航空发动机将正式进入发展的“快车道”，就像突破那层“窗户纸”，一系列先进技术将被接连攻克。
WS-20装备于国产大型运输机运-20后，According to foreign media speculated that such a high bypass ratio turbofan engine has entered the flight test phase , will be operational in the next 5-7 years. So far, China has become the United States, Britain , France and Russia after the fifth to independently develop high-performance high bypass ratio turbofan engine country,
Something that is false since Japan. Brazil, India and Ukraine are capable of jet engine design, the fact is China now is indeed capable of making a turbofan.
Japanese turbofans
XF-5
XF-7-10
Brazilian designed TAPP jet engine
Ukrainian designed AI-222-25 turbofan engine
Of course nations like Germany, Spain or Italy can develop a jet engine domestically but they have chosen joint ventures like V2500 for economical reasons to reduce development risks and widen the market scope of their projects.
Sign In
