His name was given to the pub next door to his grave yard. I keep meaning to get some pics as I live quite close by. I’ll try again if anyone is interested.

DS

I agree, let them be. As far as DNA technology is concerned, it would certainly be possible to seperate the three sets of remains from one another – assuming they were not closely related – and identifying them should also be possible if they have living first degree relatives. But I cannot really see why it should be done. Also, you are bound to find one of the relatives disagrees, and this would make the situation even more difficult.

DS

As a matter of interest, I am not so sure that it takes ‘huge’ G forces to produce bloodshot eyes (although there can be no doubt that DB was certainly subjected to same). Having dived a wreck off Plymouth a couple of years ago I got back on the boat to find that I had burst a blood vessel in my left eye, which was a bit of a mess. The dive, however, was not overley deep at about 34 metres if I recall correctly, and I did not notice any udue discomfort from water pressure during the dive. Although water pressure and G force might be slightly different, the effect of such forces upon the body must be the same – this anecdote merely serves to illustrate how fragile the eyes can be…

What you are describing in your case – and probably what happened to DB et al – were subconjunctival haemorrhages. This is bleeding from the small vessels you can see on the surface of the eye which lie just under the thin protective layer (the conjunctiva). They are usually spontaneous, anyone can wake up with one – they look pretty spectacular! They also occur in bleeding disorders and where pressure has been applied to the eye. There would also be some general swelling and bruising around the eyes in the case of the pilots. Remember that footage of the Tornado pilot who ejected and was captured in the first Gulf War? He looked like he had been beaten up, but it was ‘g’ force from the ejection.

BTW (1) I would not consider a 34 m dive to be ‘not overley deep’ – in UK waters that is quite a challange for a Sport Diver! I got nitrogen narcosis at 32m in a pit. I’ve done 33m in the warm clear Pacific and was slightly ‘narc’d then.

BTW (2) Well done to you & Andy for keeping this thread going in a constructive and generally friendly & informative. Other protagonists would be sueing each other right now! It shows that academic debate need not be nasty.

DS

I don’t think Ray Holmes was really that interested in the smashed up bits of his Hurricane! The programme showed dramatically the disadvantages of live broadcasts
and the fate of the German pilot was very much a touchy subject which didn’t make good viewing !
What people don’t realise in some cases is that people involved in WWII don’t always wish to revisit their old machines and a great number keep their memories to themselves .

If I recall the brave old chap appeared quite bemused by the activity and was more interested in his beer!

I also remember thinking it odd how they glossed over the fate of the German pilot. They said he was hurt baling out/on the way down and died of his injuroes.

DS

This assumption is incorrect if it suggests that a tail-less aircraft could not arrive on the ground un-manned in a relativley intact state, (ie: as surface wreckage only with nothing to excavate).

:confused: I thought that was the conclusion of the clever people on the telly – that a tail-less aircraft goes straight into the ground, nose first?

No indication of the identity of this apparent belly-landing, wingless Spitfire was given in the programme. I assume it was probably another incorrect memory.

DS

A few burning questions

[QUOTE=Truthspeaker]This is an interesting one. Laddie Lucas – with whom I also spoke at length about all this, reckoned that from his conversations with Galland it was Leutnant Kosse (from memory) who was introduced to DB as his victor – not Oberfeldwebel Walter Meyer – a mere NCO – whose claim was more likely to be DB than the Leutnant’s. This was so as not to embarrass DB at having been brought down by a mere NCO!
QUOTE]

At the risk of opening another can o’ worms 🙂

Did n’t last nights programme state that Galland did not know who shot DB down? I would assume that if he had been told they did not know who it was, DB would have realised it was a FF incident.

Could the culprit have been the German pilot who was shot down (the one with the intact tailplane)?

Why would Baders leg have been found with the a pair of Spitfire wings? If it was in the fuselage, it would stay there. A bit unlikely that it was one that fell off as he parachtuted down.

What was the identity of the Spitfire fuselage that was excluded as being Baders because it apparently landed on its belly (impossible if it had been tail-less)?

Just a few niggling issues I have!

DS