I can assure you Tony that at least one UK Citizen who lives abroad is VERY VERY unhappy about being used as a leverage point in this instance. Especially as she was denied the opportunity to vote on the referendum

To whit, my sister.

Thought so.

Oh well

I have never been to a workers convention. Would you recommend one?

So tell all, John. Which university did you go to? This question has been asked a number of times, including by me, and I don’t recall that you ever replied. Which could imply that you went to the ‘university of life’ and therefore have no knowledge of what you always disparage. You are probably a few decades out of date in thinking on this, as well as many other things

So Switzerland is 50% less democratic than Romania?

you didn’t follow what I said. I did not say that home ownership is unhealthy, I said the obsession with home ownership as the only apparent route to individual prosperity is unhealthy. It is exclusive rather than inclusive. You defeat your own argument, by your suggestion we are considerably less democratic that we were 20 years ago.

If democracy was only provided by home ownership, you would be taking us back to the 18th century. What next, remove the right for women to own property when married?

Re:#19

Not at any cost.

The old cliché about polishing a Turd comes to mind

I fully accept it will happen, but I’m yet to be convinced that it will be anything but to the long term detriment to the vast majority of the citizens of this country. I suggest you read or lsiten to Carney’s comments today.

I am also old enough to remember when the UK became a more socially unjust, self-centred and money grubbing society (although the leader of the government of the time said that there was no such thing as society). A great deal of society’s ills stem from that period in the early 80’s. The selling off of social housing for personal and political gain was a disaster that has increased the cost of housing benefit through the vast rise in private rented accomodation costs. Who benefits? Landlords.

We don’t all see the Thatcher years as the beacon of light many on here seem to.

And it seems that the Tories continue to see social housing as an anathema. There was an interesting interview with Nick Clegg where he stated that every time social housing came up when in coalition the response was “why would we want to encourage labour voters?”. Government Spending on new social housing has dropped by 97% since 2010.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/social-housing-government-funded-properties-rent-falls-97-per-cent-study-homes-communities-agency-a7799116.html

Re#1167

The difference between us is that I don’t actually expect every single pound to get to the program it is aimed at. I am quite content that the vast majority does and the good that the programs our government support provides an enhanced reputation to the UK that is beyond anything dubious foreign policy decisions does. We punch well above our weight in this area, and that is to be applauded.

Certainly it is far better than the very dodgy foreign arms sales that this administration is pushing in an already volatile area of the world, no corruption there of course (not)

ok, I’ll bite just to keep you happy, as I am sure that is what you intended.

Errr, just in case you have had a case of heatstroke John, I’m sure you would like me to point out a few factual errors in your post.

First, and perhaps most important, we have not yet left the EU and therefore to suggest it is independence day is not true, fake news, being economical with the actualite etc.
You might like to call it that, no one else I know does
Most momentous date? Lots of other would take precedent, for example 21st October 1805
The negotiations started today. Therefore you do not know, no one knows, whether we will ‘gain control of our border’ in the way you suggest. It may be that we end up with some elements of the customs union and free movement of people. It is a possibilty

My pride in britain reduced an notch on that day, and subsequent political events have not made me any prouder.

We’re a more insular, nastier and less tolerant nation on balance since that date. Nothing to be proud of there.

Actually I’ll take it a bit further, it is people of your sort who have made me take this view