[QUOTE=”panzerfeist1″]Future Threats: Photonic radar balloons will raise the radar horizon significantly. And depending on RTI’s radar satellite constellation radar horizon for air defenses might not exist at all with shared communication to air defenses through control centers since they are claiming interference would no longer be an issue because of software and supercomputers. But tracking performance has yet to be determined against low altitude targets despite being able to track a low altitude target according to their claim. Air defenses in the future because of FICs will lower the background noise 100 times for tracking targets.[/QUOTE]
They didn’t lower background noise by 100 times, they lower the internal noise from frequency conversion by 100 times.
Background noise includes external noise from surface clutter and cosmic background radiation.
Photonic air balloons are so far into the future that they aren’t even worth mentioning, nonetheless, all tactics have drawbacks, lifting them up in the air will increase your radar horizon, but it also harder to hide these ballons, they become juicy targets
Thank you for those weapons sources 😀 I only wish I was set with the load out carry for the JSOW-ER, MALD-X and JSM on the F-35
I will not insult you at all on the radars just like you were kind to not insult me on my mistakes of the weapons.
1. S-400 radar doesn’t track targets from 3000 km, you want longer range, there are cost you have to trade.
Mobile radars do not have the power output ground radars have. Go find out the amount of power ground radar like the Voronezh draws in comparison to a S-400 radar. The more juice you have the better the range.
2. Voronezh is difference because it is a sky wave radar, sky wave radar is not limited by radar horizon but instead have a bind sector of 1500-2500 km right in front of them.
Voronezh radars are brand new ground radar installations for A-235 system and a great integration for their entire defense network. They are not skywave radars there is a radar for that which is developed by RTI called Container. Voronezh, sm, dm,vp,work in vhf, uhf and shf. Blind sectors exist but because of russias land mass distance I am sure far distant placed container radars can cover the blind spots the other container radars have missed.
1. Look at AN/TPY-2
2. There are only two ways to look over the horizon:
a) Sky wave, long range but with blind sector
b) Surface wave, no blind sector but can only be used at coast line and have very short range about 300 km
Konteyner radar is a massive stationary sky wave radar.
@moonlight
For points 1 and 3 I am trying to find sources for unless you got some of them being launched at low altitudes to achieve those ranges?
As explained by our colleague Gabriele from UK Armed Forces Commentary, it must be noted that SPEAR 3 is a powered weapon, while the American-made Small Diameter Bomb II only glides. SPEAR 3 has two small side intakes for its Hamilton Sundstrand TJ-150 turbojet, and the engine opens up a whole range of unique capabilities for a weapon so small. This 80 kg mini-cruise missile can be launched even when not facing the target (differently from SDB) and with more freedom regardless of launch height and weather conditions that affect gliding. The weapon is to be able to engage fixed and mobile targets alike, with a data link enabling post-launch control and retargeting.
https://www.navyrecognition.com/inde…faa-f-35s.html
Glide bomb to cruise missile
But its incursion in and importance to the Navy’s F-35C plans may help breathe added life into the program once again. Most notably, the service is once again exploring the possibility of a powered JSOW-Extended Range, or JSOW-ER, cruise missile variant.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon…t-inside-f-35c
“only 2500 km shorter than your proposed number because you are referring to anti-ballistic missiles radars.”
yes radar horizon limits their ranges I have take this into account they will still track aerial targets that are within 500kms depending what altitudes they are at.
they are designed to detect and engage ballistic missiles with vastly different characteristics from a fighter aircraft such as significant Doppler shift, very high altitude with no clutter, you deal with a different kind of target the waveform you used is different and the Doppler rejection threshold is different. No one wants their ballistic missiles defense radar to track Mach 1 targets.
S-400 radars are designed to detect and track cruise missiles, jets, ballistic missiles, etc. There are sources that show voronezh radars track aircrafts as well. What I am showing is simply its performance in detection and tracking.
b) the range don’t take jamming into account.
OK I know you did not read what I posted at all:rolleyes: but just like spudman i dont blame you. I stated before I did not include jamming from land radars like krasukha or airborne jammers like the barricuda.
These radars will be attacked by very long-range missiles such as JASSM-XR or AGM-183A instead of JSM or SPEAR
By all means tell me what kind of operation you will use to achieve this but I hope your not assuming its a simple task and that there is no air defense network protecting these radars.
SBX is indeed a powerful radar and I will definetly include it next time after this upcoming maks airshow for the SU-57 like I will include the Voronezh-SM for the F-35. And just like the DM version I hope good old RTI gets there hands on them.
1. S-400 radar doesn’t track targets from 3000 km, you want longer range, there are cost you have to trade, one is waveform. Unless you can give a source state that Army radar is used to track aircraft and low altitude cruise missile, i believe it fills the same role as AN/TPY-2 or SBX
2. Voronezh is difference because it is a sky wave radar, sky wave radar is not limited by radar horizon but instead have a bind sector of 1500-2500 km right in front of them.
[LEFT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Helvetica]”Because they can get closer without detection, they can generate much better weapon’s grade target tracks than 4th gen thereby enabling more accurate use of weapons against the threat while lessening the reaction time of defensive systems.”
Sorry for the way my post is. But yes I am well aware that with stealth you can get closer than 4th gens. But lets say you are launching a 110km range glide bomb which in order to achieve this range you need high altitude. When there is a firecontrol radar with a 5m2 tracking range at 3000kms I am positively sure 5th gens will be targetted while 4th gens wll be targetted at a farther range if their weapons of choice were glide bombs. I am just trying to pickout what operations the F-35 would use with its weapons of choice.
That is an anti-ballistic missile radar rather than an air defense radar and why use short-range glide bombs while in that case, they can use JASSM-XR, MALD-V or at least JSM
1. SPEAR is a cruise missile with a turbojet engine, it is not greatly dependent on altitudes like SDB
2. “claimed 5m2 at 3000km range radar and Voronezh-SM”, radar horizon vs a fighter at 50.000 ft is around 500 km, only 2500 km shorter than your proposed number because you are referring to anti-ballistic missiles radars. The issues are three folds:
a) they are designed to detect and engage ballistic missiles with vastly different characteristics from a fighter aircraft such as significant Doppler shift, very high altitude with no clutter, you deal with a different kind of target the waveform you used is different and the Doppler rejection threshold is different. No one wants their ballistic missiles defense radar to track Mach 1 targets.
b) the range don’t take jamming into account.
c) detection range come with the cost of size, powerful radar are more stationary and harder to hide. These radars will be attacked by very long-range missiles such as JASSM-XR or AGM-183A instead of JSM or SPEAR
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3. JSOW-ER is JSOW with jet engine and therefore not dependent on altitudes like GBU-53
4. s-350s, s-300, s-400 , A-135 can intercept hypersonic targets as in ballistic missiles but they aren’t designed to intercept hypersonic missiles like scramjet missile. I don’t think buk-m3s can intercept either ballistic missiles or hypersonic missiles. Ballistic missiles can be as fast or much faster than scramjet missiles but they follow more predictable course and easier to intercept
Confusing F-15E and SA?.
F-15E are upgraded with APG-82v1
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/f-15es-apg-82-aesa-radars-deploy-red-flag-alaska-first-time/
Then they are not made to be LPI. Clearly ESM will have advantage.
I meant even one with alleged LPI such as APG-79, APG-81 still got higher average output than 1 W, far higher in fact
Or presented with low sidelobe that the only one who detect it is the one getting painted.
So if you are the one getting painted, ESM effectively beaten LPI radar?
But the 1 W radar detects the target at 28 Km. One can also say Radar win.
But normal output of air and ground radar are much higher than 1 W, right?
and except for bombers, i would say fighter RCS are much lower than 100 m2
No real consensus as there isnt even official metric being adopted as a measure of merit of being LPI.
Many, ranged from managing and trading between power vs dwell time. Low sidelobes, or make the signal unrecognizable (say random PRF etc)
Countering these techniques are possible but it is hard to tell which is “easier” to counter than the other.
Radar with 1W output can be detected from 25 km
any 10Kw can be detected from 2500 km
Doesn’t that show ESM won the race?
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a456960.pdf
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Overall however it is kinda hard to judge which parameter is better from the qualitative presentation.
Could it be LPI?
Do you you think the race between LPI radar and ESM has been won decisively by ESM system?
What are some LPI techniques ? are they all easily counter?
I think EODAS and MAW are something like the difference between the FLIR and the IRST, one give you a picture-like image while the others are concentrated on giving the vectorial data of the incoming missile/planes.
It decisively an useful innovation but hardly a game-changer, plane would still need to turn toward the detected object and use the main sensor to engage it.
UV sensor can’t detect missiles in the coasting phase, all BVR missiles except Meteor and S-200 are coasting in the terminal phase. On top of that, missiles can use propellant with very low UV radiation
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Thanks
SAB is the same with GCAS?
Here, the “silly” (?) slide. There are another 11 or 12 with further technologies developed by Sukhoi but with so much animosity for bringing unusual info to the thread, it really makes me wonder if contributing makes any sense:
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[USER=”40269″]FBW[/USER] [USER=”20563″]haavarla[/USER]
As Peregrinefalcon has shown, this landing mode exists and is performed automatically by the plane, so many arguments reduced to nothing it seems, time to update your dogmas. There are many flaws in your argument haavarla, for instance you say canards, levcons increase lift. Not exact, they allow the plane to keep higher AoAs while still generating lift, by ensuring the airflow keeps attached to the wings beyond the angle it would naturally detach. As to my silly concept, 1) it is not mine and 2) is the way birds have been landing for some million years. Think a bit about how do they perform it and maybe you will understand the idea.
Carrier landings: I know how they are performed today, they call them “controlled crashes” not for nothing, they are brutal and dangerous. You can bitch and moan as much as you want, if a flight control system is devised that automatically controls the plane during landing instead of having to entrust it to the very unreliable and inevitably clumsy man in charge, the performance would improve massively. X-47B already landed autonomously, what is the problem in fighters including this capability, and maybe at high AoAs? The benefits of landing at very low speed on a carrier for the safety of the manoeuvre, reduction of stress on the airframe and accordingly reduction of its weight would be substantial. Maybe will be done, maybe not, but all this inquisitorial outrage is a bit weird in a forum about aviation technology.
[USER=”45638″]Dr.Snufflebug[/USER]
We know Su-57 can land in half the space of the Su-35, so they must be different in that regard. Don’t know what is silly or unrealistic in using the flight controls to land like this once the capability is there and brings advantages.
what does it say in the photo on the left?
“The first prototype of a flying car is VZ-8 Airgeep, do you know when it was made? 1962. Today is 2019, 57 years later and yet flying cars isn’t produce in large number or commercially available”
This looks like a cluster**** between a helicopter and aircraft bought to you by uber but yet its called a flying car. Hell I put flying cars on google images and cant find one without wings.
Now this is something I would be proud to call a flying car or is closer to that concept without looking like an airplane or helicopter was f@cking it like the above image or your Vz-8 whatever its called. Oh and this thing can travel on water as well cant wait for this to enter the market. This will be my last post regarding cars since I don’t feel like getting in trouble again if this account goes to h#ll I will just make another one.
Neither are commercially available, the uber flying car is CGI
The first flying car prototype was made in 1962. That the work of cost and technological maturity.
And someone is throwing a hissy fit, or seems to be acting like they have been touched in the wrong place. If you want to join the conversation dont be shy in regards to technology maturity you can read the catalog as well. Speaking of flying cars I have heard in the Mak airshow in 2017 that in 2019 visitors would be given the chance to fly the borts triton, you can go buy one there.[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
borts triton can’t take off from the road….
The first prototype of a flying car is VZ-8 Airgeep, do you know when it was made? 1962. Today is 2019, 57 years later and yet flying cars isn’t produce in large number or commercially available.