Assuming a pure perpendicular viewpoint of the side planform of the su-35, the sheer size of the stabilisers and intake/engine housings are vast. Rafales vertical stabiliser is made of EM transparent composites and is smaller and there is only 1.
i dont agree with this , rafale vertical tail is not EM transparent because you will need sth to control the fin there , not to mention wire for the RWR system inside the tail
The twin intake ducts stretching along the underneath are a rcs nightmare. No s ducts, just huge fan faces, albeit treated with ram, as the rafale.
The su-35 has a much larger circular nose enhancing creeping wave return from the side. The canopy shape remains unchanged from early production models though treated with RAM as rafale.
agree
The Brazilian evaluation showed lower rcs values for rafale than the SH and gripen NG. If the su-35 is below these I will be impressed
.
can you post the Brazilian evaluation here
I thought the rafale was also developing active cancellation through spectra reducing EM spikes of “known” loads reducing.
Also development of a technique that involves robbing the radarโs receiver of its sensitivity while it is looking in the direction of the aircraft being protected. If you can reduce the receiver gain to 1/100 of normal while the radar is illuminating the target, you have the same effect that reducing the aircraftโs RCS to 1/100 would have achieved. You have in effect obtained the signature of a real LO aircraft.
There is alot on rafales LO techniques, both physical and electronic, if you dig deep enough.
active cancellation on rafale have been discussed before , it quite nonsense if you really think about it
I doubt it – that would be hardly any worse than its likely clean RCS.
Another thing to consider: once the shooting has started, the extremely wide field of view of the Irbis will allow the Su-35 to play the A-Pole game far better than the RBE2.
iam talking about short distance when rafale dont have to use fuel tank , the missiles and pylon not very big ๐ , also increase RCS of Rafale from 0.1 m2 clean to 1 m2 with weapon is actually a lot
btw Meteor have 2 way datalink , so rafale dont have guide it all the way like SARH missiles , only need to correct course when it come near target
Its target 8g not missile. R-73 in early 80s could turn 40g. Mica came 15 years later with slow yearly production. not in class of R-73/R-77. Meteor production is even slower.
Operational aircraft have these pods. that inhibit its ability for higher g and rcs reduction feature have less importance.
r-73 is a short range dogfight missiles you cannot compared it to medium range missiles like Mica , aim-120 or r-77
the picture is EA-18G , and they are used for escort jamming just like EA-111 , for a normal fighter the case is different
Its target 8g not missile.
:confused: wasn’t the article say the missiles can attack in overdrive mode of 8g or sth ? and even if the missiles can attack target doing 8g maneuver it still less maneuver than Meteor or aim-120D or R-77 , and while it may be able to do that at short range , no way that thing can do it at max range
btw if the missiles is useless against target maneuver more than 8g does that mean it simply useless against Rafale ? ( or any 9g fighter )
These are not contridicting unless you want to interpret it in your own way.
Su-35 strong radar allows it to lock on at much greater distance and guide even faster missiles launched from faster more energy platform. by using RVV-BD early Flanker pilot will know what kind of evasive/electronic measures Rafale is going to deploy to defeat that missile.
This pix show the relative size of wing tip pods.
Rafale platform neither have the engine power nor capacity to carry such pods. It could carry some but it will have to sacrifice ET/Meteor capacity.
deceptive jamming dont required high power , noise jamming require high power but can be easily defeat by home on jam
RVV-BD is not faster than Meteor , especially cruise and terminal speed as Meteor have an engine
rafale supercruise at mach 1.4 while su-35 do that at mach 1.2 i dont see how su-35 is faster ( btw neither of them will be able to reach max speed with missiles load )
What do you think the RCS of a combat-configured (6 to 8 missiles and 1 or 2 tanks, as opposed to clean) Rafale is going to be? About the same as a clean Mirage 2000 or MiG-21 perhaps? Well that puts it at about 3mยฒ and the Irbis is indeed claimed to detect targets of such size at 400km – in fact it’s not a claim anymore either, recent reports say it achieved or exceeded that goal in testing.
I would expect Irbis to cause every bit as much consternation to a Rafale as Meteor would to a Su-35.
i think a Rafale with only missile would have rcs = 0.5-1 m2 , but how about su-35 ? what is it’s RCS with missiles
It is for everything. 8g target from 15m to 25km height. and that is export.
what you quote was saying is that the missiles can turn 8 g , missiles like Mica or Aim-120 can even turn 40-50 g but that doesnot mean missiles can intercept target that turn equal g as themselves , and one more thing rafale can turn 9g
btw missiles that can turn 8 g at 15 m no way can turn the same at 25 km their performance will be reduced because air become thinner at high altitude ( ofcourse it apply to fighter as well )
and normal missiles turning ability reduced alot at max range while missiles with ramjet engine like Meteor are much less affected by that
RVV-BD has been in tests with MIG-31 upgrades for long time. The same maker of radar for both Su-35 & MIG-31.
IRBIS has another feature of guiding 4 semi active radar missiles at ranges greatert than 300km. so there is presumption that autonomous seeker will not be effective against counter measures. and since RVV-BD with large motor will have higher speed along with higher speed/altitude of Su-35 so it can reach the target much faster. that gives flexibility to Su-35 turn around much faster from incoming missiles at great ranges. bottom line is there is more likely hood of Rafale shot with Meteor being missed if it is launced from ranges greater than 100km. so Rafale cannot do much even if it knows Su-35 location.
meteor use ramjet engine = much better cruise speed and terminal speed
Meteor can be guide by datalink too
also RVV-BD is like aim-54 not designed to attack fighter
Before you start shooting the Su-35 flew 1,055 km. I chose a level playing field for the Rafale and Su-35, the range of 3300 km with a radius of 3,300 km * .35 = 1155 km. ๐
you choose range that benefit su-35 the most ๐ caused rafale need fuel tank to reach that range while su-35 dont ๐ not very far i think , how about a shorter range that rafale only carry missiles
These are new projects. IMHO “izd.180PD” – an initiative the company “Vympel”
Izd-180PD is a case study that started in 2002 but whose origin could be trace down to the mid 90’s tests of solid fuel ramjet solutions on R-77 (both ground and air launched at Akhtubinsk), it’s still a proposal
RVV-SD – 110 km.
http://www.ktrv.ru/production/68/649/902/Then there are the “izd. 180” and “izd. 180PD” with a range of 150 km. and 250 km. from the arsenal of the PAK FA ๐
“izd. 810” – 400 km.
if you was talking about the ramjet r-77 then it has been canceled a long time ago ( it was supposed to go to production in 2010 but not even go beyond planning stage )
Simulation of air combat one Su-35 against two Rafale, shows that:
After 1.17 hours after takeoff, the Su-35 will fire long-range missiles, will change its position and take a high altitude flight. After 1:25 hours after takeoff open fire medium-range missiles. All this time the Rafale can not return fire, had to actively maneuver, dropping external fuel tanks with the rest of 2055 kg. Probability of hitting the two targets eight missiles over 100% in ideal conditions.Su-35 is a high probability to win the battle at two Rafale, with 10 RVV-SD and RVV-MD.
Fight on guns.
Maneuverability of the Su-35 exceeds the capabilities of Rafale, thanks to thrust vector control, greater thrust and lower wing loading. Weight second volley gun Nexter DEFA 791B slightly above GS-301 – 10.7 kg / s. vs. 9.75 kg / sec. At the same ammunition GS-301 150 shots, DEFA – 125 shots.
In any case Rafale would have to withdraw from the battle before the Su-35 due to the much smaller fuel capacity.
R-77 have max range of 90 km :confused: how could rafale not able to return fire ? , rafale can see Su-35 at 150-200 km :confused: the range they can detect the other quite excess their weapon range , may be in 1 vs 1 situation su-35s will have some advantages against rafale but 1vs 2 really ๐ come on ,in WVR it be even harder may be even impossible to do 1 vs 2 ( even if both side dont have HOBS missiles and only use gun )
Spectra and the system “Khibiny” find each other, as soon as the start to run radars
i dont think it be that easy for both system to detect LPI signal , otherwise compare RCS and radar power will be quite pointless
Before Rafale get rid of external fuel tanks …
how about on short distance mission , also you can put some RAM on the tank but not on the radar nose , btw wasn’t the su-35 have RCS = 5 -10 m2 or sth like that ?
Out of those listed I would say X-31.
The Su-47, Su-37 and F-15 ACTIVE were all supermaneuverable (like serial F-22 and Su-35S today) but also rather massive. A nimbler plane has the potential to be more, well, nimble.
The X-36 was more of an attempt to attain modern fighter-worthy agility without the use of traditional tail surfaces/vertical stabs rather than having a go at no compromise super-mega-uber agility akin to the X-31.
The MiG-29OVT is a better fit into that list, IMHO. But I’d say that the X-31 would win an agility competition at te end of the day, anyway. It was a supersonic Su-29, so to speak. Designed from the ground up for the job, whereas the others approached it from a different direction.
actually it seem that F-15 ACTIVE is not agile because it was designed to have short take off distance