anyway in my opinion nothing have better look than Su-37

One document that may be of interest:

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a456960.pdf

Page 53, below table 2:

With a highly sensitive ES receiver, a 1W LPI can be detected at 250 km! To avoid detection one would have to go to lower transmit powers. No doubt modern AESAs like the AN/APG-81 have much higher sensitivities than the one presented in table 2 on that same page; on the other hand one should also keep in mind the dependence on RCS for detection. 4.5 gen a/c like Rafale, Typhoon, and Gripen NG are assumed to have RCS around 0.1m2. I wonder how the F-35 can detect such a relatively small a/c at a large distance without using at least some power?

Does anybody have ballpark figures of the power output of modern AESAs in LPI mode?

Anyway, I am wondering that if e.g. the F-35 is to face another VLO plane then it would have a problem, since, in order to detect a VLO at a distance it would most likely have to increase the power, even if sensitivity of the radar is excellent… this will make it easy for the other VLO plane to detect the emissions. And if the VLO planes opposing the F-35 have the capacity to triangulation then the F-35 may find itself in trouble:

http://gb.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=416108193
page 43, first paragraph

Perhaps I am wrong, but even if the other plane (e.g. PAK FA) has, say, one order of magniture higher RCS than the F-35, it may still have sufficiently low RCS to cause a real headache for the F-35s radar.

In such a scenario the F-35 might be better off turning off the radar? In which case the scenario Saab describes below becomes true…

http://www.gripenblogs.com/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?List=1d32d33f-2d8a-4254-ba7e-7f020e980176&ID=11&Web=f4e358e9-9737-43b1-b2f9-c11c7b4ca9fa

1-this have been discussed many time in the old thread ,very sensitive RWR can see LPI but they also see a lot of background noise ( not to mention jamming from MALD-J or EA-18 ) that why it really hard to detect AESA radar ( russian , USA , chinese will not going to spend money on stealth fighter , if AESA radar is so easy to detect like that )
2- rafale and EF-2000 will not going to have rcs =0.1 m2 when they carry missiles , pylon , pod ( not to mention fuel tank )
3- T-50 and F-35 probably detect other by IRST before they can see the other on radar

The brochure says “expanded BVR engagement zones.”

I think it is safe to say well beyond 20-30km.

i dont know :confused: , CUDA seem extremelly small actually , i dont think it will have much longer range than aim-9x

One thing LM is conveniently staying silent about is what’s the real range of CUDA. I’ve seen many people pretty quick to be impressed by the increased load, but what’s its real characteristics.

“A medium BVR missile” seems rather vague tbh, and the fact that there are no comparaison on range vs other missiles like the AMRAM when they stress the ability to carry much more than legacy missiles worries me… a lot!

their is not enough information about the range for CUDA , but according to LM they will be BVR ( may be 20-30 km ) , an F-35 may carry 3 meteor for BVR fight , and if they all miss and the enemy try to get close to dogfight it still have 4 CUDA to play , so the range may be not so important , CUDA is for situation when the enemy try to dogfight

So you are not disputing my assumptions, only my conclusions?

In that case please explain where I’m wrong instead of giving me a general “you are wrong” answer.

1 The radar performance (distance) for the Captor C is at N011M-level or 30% higher.
2 In order to not need to go closer than 20 nm in BVR they need to engage the target (firing missiles) at a slightly longer distance.
3 To engage in BVR you need to be able to track the target, if you dont have IRST/FLIR then most likely by radar.
4 The minimum frontal RCS is different from the general frontal aspect RCS. In the case of the F22 the general frontal RCS is closer to 0,01 than 0,001 aqm. If this is the other way around then the Luftwaffe Eurofighters didnt use their radar but got the lock on by some other means.
5 Assuming the other statements are true we get the range figures I have submitted when the enemy is using Irbis E.

My numbers range from X to Y assuming the shortest possible detection range enterpretation from the quotes and is likely a couple of km longer, unless of course they are talking miles in general and in that case the end result is pretty close to the stated numbers.

Mkay?

the line in red => very big assumption without solid reason
1- EF-2000 could have use IRST
2- Nato use AWACs very often , so may be the reason why they can see the F-22 from that far is because of the AWACs
3- the article only say that EF-2000 can’t go closer than 20 miles notthing say that they can detect or track F-22 at that distance
4 – even if the Article mean Ef-2000 can see F-22 from 50 km in some situation , that doesnot mean these are head on situation , may be from the side ( EF-2000 fly very wide formation ) or from the rear
5 -in practice F-22 often use luneberg lens to hide it’s real RCS , in some situation they even have wing tank so their RCS are much bigger than normal

to sum up : there is no evident to say that the frontal RCS of F-22 is 0.01 m2 rather than 0.0001 m2 like what have been published by US government , and as the frontal RCS of F-22 is 0.0001 m2 even Irbis-e can only see them at 28 km ( for F-35 the number is 55 km )

360 degree engagement capability, expanded BVR capability, expanded WVR capability, multi-mode seeker…

Yes please, I will take 12. (and throw in 12 more for my buddy) :diablo:

:dev2:

😮 this missile is so cool ,it really look like a miniature version of NGM

the T3 design . by contrast , look a lot like Meteor :
T3


meteor :

it would be really good if the meteor can do air to ground as well

1.PIRATE can detect Raptor from 50km (head on, non AB), automatically go to STT mode, and visual ID(STTI) from around 40km ( AFM september 2008, page 62) – so typhoon probably can shoot from 40km range.

http://typhoon.starstreak.net/Eurofighter/sensors.html

2.Maj.Gumbrecht told that he can’t go closer than 20miles – so shoot from over 30 miles (~50km) was low Pk ( see AMRAAM shoot distance from Allied Force – around 25-30km – so 20 miles [32km] is rather realistic against top 4.5 gen fighter [NEZ of AMRAAM]).

3.Problem should be AMRAAM Pk against VLO jet. Probably typhoons pilots need to avoid AMRAAMs and go closer to around 15-20km to fire ASRAAM/IRIS-T or use AMRAAM just like fox1 (risky job).Anyway kill ratio was still on Raptor favor, hey but F-15C can’t engage VLO before going to WVR… ( no IRST).

EF-2000 dont even have LFR for it’s IRST , i dont really think it can have fire solution by it’s IRST