MoskitChina wants its Flankers to be able to use the SD-10 BVR missile. China is not satisfied with the Russian R-77. But there are integration issues that need to be solved as well as the choice of Russian or Chinese radars.
R-77s are not good enough to deal with Taiwan’s fighters armed with superior AIM-120Cs. The R-77s are inferior missiles outclassed by superior American AMRAAMs. That’s why China needs the SD-10s.
Chinese fighters like the J-10s use SD-10s but Russian fighters like the Su-30MKKs use R-77s. The lack of a good ARH BVR missile is one of the major weaknesses of the Russian Flankers.
MoskitAviation Week & Space Technology articles on China are often just a lazy rehash of old discredited claims.
Its quite disappointing to see a well known publication like AW&ST publish such lazy, inaccurate claims about China. AW&ST does have good articles, but its articles on China are often lazy and inaccurate.
Douglas Barrie needs to educate himself about what is really happening in China. AW&ST badly needs to improve the poor quality of its articles on China.
MoskitChina is focusing on building upgraded J-11s as its heavy multirole fighter and J-10s as its light multirole fighter. J-11 production will continue. Both the J-11 and J-10 are China’s current frontline fighters.
China is also developing a 5th generation stealth fighter. Its possible this new fighter will be called the J-12.
The J-10, J-11 and J-12 are China’s three main fighter programs.
MoskitChina is not stopping J-11 production. What has happened is that China has stopped buying Su-27SK kits from Russia. China wants to produce an upgraded version of the J-11. The question is whether China will use Russian technology or Chinese technology for the upgrade. That’s why Russia is flogging the Su-27SKM so hard to China. Russia desperately wants China to choose the Su-27SKM for upgrading the J-11 program.
But so far China doesn’t seem interested in the Russian offer. China has basically mastered Su-27 manufacture and doesn’t need to buy kits from Russia any more. So Russia is trying to sweeten the deal by offering upgrades for the J-11. But China will probably use its own technology to upgrade the J-11.
The J-11 may possibly be upgraded with WS-10A engines, new radar, new avionics, and the airframe will be built with Chinese manufacturing technology. This new multirole J-11 will be a much more capable fighter. Some of these technologies can also be applied to upgrade the earlier J-11s, Su-27SKs, Su-27UBKs.
China already has approximately 300 Flankers. China will also upgrade the Su-30MKKs and Russia is offering upgrades for the Su-30MKK. China will upgrade all its Flankers. The question is what technologies China will use for these upgrades. And China will continue with J-11 production.
Moskithttp://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=483619&C=airwar
China’s Military Missiles Take Center Stage at Air Show
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, ZHUHAI, China
Chinese military missiles took centre stage at the Zhuhai air show Nov. 2 with the debut showing of some 100 weapons and aerospace products, showcasing the country’s economic and military might.
It marked the first time China has openly sold missiles at the China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition, the only air show in the country and now in its fifth year, military commentators said.
“This is the first time the Chinese are displaying surface-to-surface missiles. Surface-to-surface missile technology is very sensitive in the international market,” said Andrei Pinkov, who writes for Jane’s Defense Weekly.
“China sold that kind of technology to Pakistan at the end of 1980s and the U.S. opposed this,” he told Agence France-Presse.
“For a long time, China didn’t display this kind of missile system but now they want to show the international society that they want to return to the missile market.”
Pinkov said the exhibition showed China had the economic power to develop highly-advanced weapon systems.
“Russia has built a lot of things but they never complete them and when you ask them why, they always say they don’t have the money to finish it. But you would never get that answer from China,” he said.
“The exhibition shows they have the economic power.”
The highlight of the exhibition held in Zhuhai city in southern China’s Guangdong province was the B611, a short-range surface-to-surface missile weapon system with a range of 150 kilometers (about 95 miles). Its showing would rattle leaders in Taiwan, he said. Tensions between Taiwan and China have been growing since the re-election of President Chen Shui-bian from the pro-independence Democratic Progressive Party earlier this year.
China claims Taiwan as part of its territory and has threatened to invade the island should it formally declare independence.
“Missiles pose a big threat to Taiwan because there are 600 missiles aiming at them and the range of this missile system means that it can cover part of the outside islands of Taiwan and so I think Taiwan is more and more sensitive on this system,” he said.
Another highlight of the exhibition was a new FLG-1S missile-gun integrated weapon system, for use in modern air combat.
The missile, developed by China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp, was primarily made for field air defense and can be used against low-flying helicopters, ground-attack aircraft, unmanned aircraft and sub-sonic cruise missiles.
The Chinese government-owned aerospace company was also displaying a range of short-range air defense missiles and surface-to-air missiles, as well as small civilian communications satellites.
Moskithttp://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?prd_id=160&msg_id=5059261&startrow=1&date=2004-11-07&do_alert=0
2004-11-07 13:48 * CHINA * AIR SHOW * CLOSING GALAS *
DEMONSTRATION FLIGHTS AND BEAUTY CONTEST CROWN AIRSHOW CHINA-2004
HONG KONG, November 7 (RIA Novosti) – The 5th international aviation show, Airshow China 2004, is finishing in Zhuhai, China’s south. The closing day is festive with a beauty contest for stewardesses, and the world’s best aerobatics teams making demonstration flights.
A SU 27SKM, Russia’s best fighter craft, finished demonstration toward weekend. The program meant to show all its worth. Aerobatic stunts included an Immelmann turn in afterburner, sliced and slow rolls and half-rolls, a whip stall, hammer heads, and rolling circles, Yevgeny Frolov, head test pilot of the Sukhoi design bureau, said to RIA Novosti. An updated SU 27 is incomparably better than its precedent-the 27SKM has inherited all its strong points with spectacularly improved control and navigation, and upgraded fighting ability in all weather.
The Russian delegation was one of the best and largest this time. Russia had the most showy and convenient site, at the exposition quarters main entrance, total area exceeding 1,300 square meters, said spokesmen for the Rosoboronexport, government company leading and supervising arms trade, and chief organizer of the Russian exposition. All top-notch air design bureaus were among the fifty Russian corporate exhibitors, the delegation exceeding three hundred.
However fine Russia might be doing, Zhuhai air shows are past their prime, even though exposition quarters have spectacularly increased, say a majority of experts Novosti has interviewed.
Very few pioneer makes have appeared-a majority of exhibitors are making do with long-established items, remarked Guido Bacelman, editor of the Swiss-based journal, Fly News.
There are extremely few genuine items-even the host country is demonstrating dummies, complained Andrew Chang, editor-in-chief of the KANWA analytical center, based in Hong Kong.
Models really dominate a vast field behind the exposition center. Towering among replicas of Chinese single-seat planes is an IL 76 jumbo, which has brought to Zhuhai a greater part of Russian show equipment.
Despite all that, the Airshow China is among the world’s most expensive air shows. It costs an exhibitor $70,000 to bring one craft, and the host charges $6,000 per parking, says Yevgeny Yefimov of Tupolev Co.
Rosoboronexport spokesmen refused to say with any precision what it cost Russia to take part. A standard stand is rented at $100,000, remarked a Russian air company spokesman.
The Airshow China is a biennial arrangement. It is held on China’s central government orders. Organizing the shows is the people’s government of the Zhuhai special economic zone. Active in the organization are China’s State Committee for Defense Research, Technology and Industry; the Civil Aviation Ministry, the AVIC 1 and 2 all-China air industrial corporations, and several other government companies and central offices.
A greater part of Russian delegates are leaving for Moscow tomorrow by a charter flight.
MoskitWZ-9 helicopter production is increasing. The WZ-9s are military versions of the Z-9 and are used as armed scouts for the PLA.
The WZ-10 dedicated helicopter gunship has flown and is undergoing trials right now. The WZ-10 features composite armor and is a specialised tank killer.
The WZ-9 armed scout and WZ-10 armored gunship will probably function like the American Kiowa Warrior scouts and Apache gunships.
The WZ-9 will carry out battlefield surveillance while the WZ-10 will unleash heavy firepower.
China and Europe are also jointly developing a new helicopter but not much is known about this new helicopter. Maybe we’ll get more information at the airshow.
MoskitAt this point in time China is concentrating on building the following:
Heavy Multirole Fighter J-11 (in service)
Light Multirole Fighter J-10 (in service)
Naval Strike Fighter JH-7A (in service)
Advanced Jet Trainer L-15 (in development)
MoskitSrbin, I think you are a little confused. The J-10 is already in service and is being mass produced. The L-15 is an advanced trainer that is still in development.
The FC-1 is a light fighter that is still in development and is meant for export. The FTC-2000 has not received PLA approval and may never be accepted into service.
Moskitbring it on, I wasn’t being sarcastic. The Su-30MKI saturation idea is stupid.
The Su-30MKIs will be blind against the stealthy Raptor while the Raptor will be using its LPI radar to track the Su-30MKIs. The Raptor can use its superior speed and weapons to engage at will and kill all the Su-30MKIs.
One 5th generation Raptor is worth more than 6-7 inferior 4th generation Su-30MKIs. One single squadron of Raptors will kill 200 Su-30MKIs.
The F/A-22 Raptor is the only air dominance fighter in the world and the $258Million price tag is well worth it.
And where is Russia going to find the tens of billions of dollars needed to develop a 5th generation fighter?
MoskitThe Su-30MKI swarm warfare idea is dumb.
The Su-30MKIs won’t be able to track the F/A-22 Raptor while the Raptor’s LPI radar will track the Su-30MKIs without the Su-30MKIs even knowing it. The Su-30MKIs will be blind and won’t even know the stealthy Raptor is out there. But the Raptor will be tracking the Su-30MKIs.
The Raptor will use its supercruise to engage and disengage at will. The SU-30MKIs will have to use afterburner and will quickly run out of fuel.
The Raptor will kill SU-30MKIs like flies. A single squadron of Raptors will quickly slaughter 200 SU-30MKIs.
MoskitHow much money is available to Russia for the development of the PAK-FA? Has Russia given any indication where the money for the PAK-FA is going to come from? Developing a 5th generation fighter is hugely expensive. Russia will probably need tens of billions of dollars. Where is the money going to come from?
Is the PAK-FA going nowhere because of the lack of money? Where are the tens of billions of dollars going to come from?
MoskitThe AL-31FP is just a variant of the AL-31F. Making some modifications and adding TVC doesn’t make it a new engine. If you add TVC to the RD-33 does that make it a new engine?
Compared to Western engines, the AL-31FP is primitive.
MoskitEU has made it clear that their top priority is to get China involved in Galileo. It doesn’t really matter if Russia or Israel joins Galileo or not. But EU wants China in Galileo. As long as China is in Galileo it won’t matter if no other country joins Galileo.
EU has done its homework and knows that China is by far the most important emerging market in the world. China is too important. EU is not going to sideline China from Galileo just to make the US happy.
The EU and China markets combined is much bigger than the US market. EU and China together will make Galileo the world leader.
MoskitRussia will try to make money out of its old engines like the RD-33 and AL-31. Russia will sell the RD-33/93 to the FC-1 program because there is going to be a lot of orders.
Russia is selling the old AL-31FP to India and the old RD-33/93 to Pakistan. Russia is playing both sides and laughing all the way to the bank.
Both the AL-31FP and RD-33 are old engines using old technology that is decades behind Western engines. But the AL-31FP and RD-33 are good enough for India and Pakistan.
China, on the other hand, is moving away from Russian engines with the WS-10A. China wants Western quality engines and the WS-10A is an important move in that direction.
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