Only if the UK can field enough of them to provide an effective force.

It comes back to the unit cost.

If the cost was anywhere near the original statements, and I don’t mean in 20 years time I mean now, then I’d be rather enthusiastic about the aircraft.

As most will note I’m rather less than enthusiastic.

Even if the UK does purchase and deploy enough F35’s to provide an effective strike force it will be at the expense of other equally important, but perhaps not quite as sexy as pointy jets, capabilities. MPA is a case in point.

Lack of MPA doesn’t have anything to do with the cost of F35, it was about the disaster that was the Nimrod MRA4 programme and a government that decided to stop pouring money down the toilet.

Is it too early to begin this discussion?

Is the SDSR a post election issue or are we about to witness another titanic battle between the services?

It has already been hinted at before (with the RAF suggesting they don’t need CFT on Typhoon because their A2A refuelling is so crucial) but are their going to be some fairly circuitous debates about need versus want?

What do you think will be cut, reinstated or proposed to keep the UK on the path to its stated 2020 force capabilities?

I will start with an easy one- Typhoon gets more weapons and radar sooner but Tornado retirement is accelerated…..!

More salami slicing dressed up as maintaining defence spending at static growth (cuts).

But it’s looks like we’re probably going to get MPA back, almost certainly a small buy of P8.

Retention of Sentinel R1.

Typhoon without CFTs is pretty stupid if it’s going to be carrying Storm Shadow.

for 3 years time?

did they stick PWIV underwing in 2011?

Yes, I must say I was more than a little surprised to see these sorts of tests being done now when in-service data is so far off.

Whilst I realise this thread does not have Destroyer in the title, it seemed like a good place to start.

I recently read an article on “war is boring” which alleged that amongst other things the Aster missiles on the Type 45 can only be carried and fired in small numbers. It also alleged that the Astute (OT I know) was too slow.

Is there anything to this?

After a quick look at War is Boring, is this the article that you were talking about?
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/all-the-things-the-british-military-cant-do-anymore-9560939f3d5

The bit about Aster doesn’t make any sense:

And there’s a problem with the missiles. The Aster 15s are fine for a lone incoming anti-ship missile — the Aster 15 is highly maneuverable and functions as a both short- and medium-range defense weapon. But the missiles take up a lot of space and can’t be “quad-packed” into a missile tube.

This reduces the number of available Aster 15s to a mere 20 missiles compared to the 96 missiles carried by the U.S. Arleigh Burke-class destroyers. The number is even fewer than the advanced (but much smaller) Sachsen-class frigates of the German navy, which carry 32 missiles — and that was already on the low-end. In the event of an enemy saturation attack — like a blitz but with anti-ship missiles instead of linebackers — the air-defense-focused Daring class could be in serious trouble.

The T45 has a 48 cell vls which carry a mix of Aster 15 or 30s, so all of that information quoted above is just nonsense, it sounds like it’s a poorly written piece having a dig about not being able to quad packk Aster 15. For what it’s worth the lack of quad pack option on Aster 15 I do find a little difficult to understand but there you go.

It has been reported that Astute and Ambush won’t reach their design speed, I believe it was something to do with the gear box not being up to scratch, it’s being rectified in latter boats of the A class, it’s probably not a big deal.

It also mentions that the Type 22 was the primary anti-submarine ship in the RN, that is just outright wrong, the upgraded type 23 with 2087 sonar had that accolade and still do.

War is boring isn’t a very good website.

Yep maybe but I do think a radar upgrade to Scanter 4100 and fitting of a 30mm cannon would be a good move and maybe fitting a scaneagle system to give an eyes over the horizon capability

Can’t disagree with you there.

If the Navy are going to start using the River class in this way should they be upgraded with Scanter 4100 radars 30mm cannon and a flight deck. With the Tyne- Severn and Mersey still having 10 to 15 years service left that would bring all 7 ships of the class up to one standard in sensors weapons and helicopter support all be it the new 90m ships will be that bit more capable

I’m not sure if it’s possible to give the Rivers a flight deck, I would imagine if it was it would require quite a substantial rebuild.

What you need is a long loiter aircraft carrying dozens of guided and unguided munitions that can be targeted SIMULTANEOUSLY at multiple moving targets. That is what’s needed.

Currently the aircraft / helicopters employed by Iraq (and coallition I guess) have the ability to target only ONE target at a time… meaning that there is a “shot to shot” delay of at least 40 seconds between targets. Once the first vehicle in a bunch of vehicles is hit, they disperse, abandon vehicles etc…

What is needed is an ability to target multiple vehicles SIMULTANEOUSLY. That is the key capability that’s missing now.

Tornado GR4 armed with Brimstone certainly does have that capability.

The hull using pieces of 971 subs is nothing new

^This^ probably has something to do with the Boreys being cheaper than Yasens.