Playing fantasy fleet

I would like to see T45 7&8 built sans Sampson for now if needs be to get hulls in water

8-10 C1 5-6000T – Im thinking along lines of a stretched/enlarged Type 23 (capability wise not actual ship) with TAS with provision for 24 VLS tubes (+8 used by CAAM if not a dedicated launcher) +Mk 8, CODAG IEP propulsion

8-10 C2 hull same as above, with manning and savings on equiptment fit
ie No TAS, space for but possibly no VLS fitted beyond CAAM, on the propulsion side same diesels and IEP as C1 possibly without the gas turbine installed (again just as a cost saving)

If the wiring harnesses are FFBNW on the C2 the ships could conceivably swap roles if required (ie a C1 is in extensive re fit)

C3 I would licence build the sweedish BAM I have seen a lot of proposals for larger vessels but i believe that in many cases the proposals are just to big (6000T colonial sloop being one) to big to my mind for the mcm role + running costs

14MCM
2 Hydro
8 Patrol – possibly a BAM 2 here with a 10 M stretch 3 river replacement 1 Cllyde replacement 4 used as pirate chasers and general light presence work

Give them the usual cannon, provision for a point defence system and a hanger.
I would also give them a bow mounted sonar and ASW tubes – my rational is that (particuarly after the nimrod withdrawal) whist carrying out there OPV role they can also conduct basic ASW surveilance, I admit they wont be a significant threat but 1 more thing a hostile skipper has to keep tabs on. Also in a shooting war they could be pushed into the littorals as escorts for amphibs/ logistic vessels

I know the last addition will push up costs but with an ever shrinking fleet double hatting the OPVs seems sensible.

regards

C3 was disjoined from the FSC programme a couple of years ago, it’s also been kicked into the long grass with upgrades for the MCM fleet running on, I also note that you’ve just turned them into a frigate, or at least have given them a weapons fit comparable to a T23 (minus Harpoon).

There’s a good chance that the C1 and C2 have been merged together now as the type 26 Frigate.

If you’re building 2 Type 45s without Samson what are they going to be armed with? You’ve basically got a top of the line AAW destroyer without the AAW; sounds like the biggest most expensive OPV in existence.

Your numbers give RN a minimum of 26 escorts, SDSR says 19, we’re not going to get any more than that unless something very unexpected and drastic happens (war against a country with a relatively advanced military).

hmmmm,

so that image tends to imply very stealthy, VTOL and pretty advanced design guidelines (not a helicopter).

The shear fact that this is being openly discussed suggests to me that enough work has gone into it to make a test vehicle possible.

As to the scepticism (and i know everyone is particularly sceptical at the moment when it comes to UK defence), surely a VTOL stealthy strike UAV is immensely appealing to navies around the world?

LM have a not dissimilar concept called VARIOUS in development somewhere (which was roundly poo pooed when i mentioned it months ago)….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUpMG-KN7Pg

In a way i suppose the need to change airspeed and direction very quickly might suggest a novel propulsion system as well as weapons?

And if the UK did choose to field a UCAV capable of striking over 1000km away from a carrier, exactly how many could they launch at once? dozens….

worth thinking about….

Thing is, I’m wondering what sort of payload a VTOL UCAV could actually carry for 1000nm.

Following on from Snow Monkey’s comments I read it the same way as mrmalaya – when you emphasise ship based rather carrier based then it does sound like they are going for something that can fly from the helo deck of a T45, so I guess that they are looking at some sort of STOL platform, either based on a unmanned helicopter or possibly using the lift-fan from a F-35B in a new air frame, of course I know there are other UVAC’s in the prototype stage which are designed for VTOL/STOL operations but UVAC derived from the F-35B would be pretty sweet.

There was some concept art floating around last year (I think) that showed some small VTOL UAVs that were shown taking off from a T45 helo deck, I suspect the art and this project are connected.

My own thoughts are similar to those of PPP, with an added dose of sounds rather ambitious and expensive.

What’s the current number that France are expected to buy?

That Spear capability 3 looks very interesting, 8 in a F35 weapons bay does rather sound to good to be true though.

Yes, I dimly recall seeing those, if it’s not been announced yet then I would expect to see some, possibly after the upgrade work MBDA is doing.

I think the big question is what weapons will the U.K. take the time and money to certify on the F-35C?

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0163.shtml

The U.K, could very well try and go cheap with just dumb bombs.
I know it sounds silly, but in this financial climate anything is possible.
They shouldn’t have to worry about AMRAAMs. But they will have to foot the bill on storm shadow and brimstone ect.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0163.shtml

Aren’t all of those going to be integrated* anyway? Surely the question should be which of these weapons due for integration will the UK purchase?

* Except Brimstone and Storm Shadow I’m not sure if they’re actually funded yet?

But is there a Stormshadow-ER variant, as the JASSM-ER’s range is ~3x that of the standard JASSM?

Not much use having 3 times the range if it can’t hit the target;)

John K – you forgot the loss of the R1 Sentinel, a type quite useful to the army.