Well no it’s not more – it’s twelve as I’ve said for days. That’s what you can expect to be fully operational on the carrier. Hate’s the Navy? Don’t listen to him? Okay, glad we finally know the basis of your reasoned arguments!:D

You can say all you want about how you predicted this figure but fact is this has been the probable “peacetime” airgroup for years, so basically not much of a prediction.

I think he means they can be used to strike out at attackers, which is true, but they aren’t exactly kitted out for the role, lacking dedicated ASuM missiles for a start.

From their bases in the UK they can strike out at attackers from Europe, who are these exactly? The Tornados are there to do exactly the same as any carrier borne aircraft the UK possess, to bomb unfortunates in far flung places of the world, the main difference being Tornados need friendly basing rights to do it.

No this is all down to Chox favouring the RAF over the RN, none of his ‘analysis’ amounts to any more than this and his support for retaining a specialist strike aircraft just underlines it.

No I’ve taken it into account, however they still have a value, and giving them away for free is a bad idea when they can instead be sold. Giving 4 frigates away to get a contract for a small part of 5 is unlikely to yield a net profit. Remember, these ships are almost certain to be built in Brazil, and probably a lot of their systems too. The 4 frigates could be sold to any number of countries.

Wasn’t there a rumour of a possible sale of new build T23s to an African country earlier on this year? Morocco, Algeria?

So we’ve fitted the ASW and ASuW kit into the Nimrod, now you want to take it out and put it in another plane that it was never designed to go in instead? Sounds like a fantastic way to waste some money!

I think you forgot the bit about it being no where near operational yet, whilst Nimrod should be soon.

Liam Fox is merely repeating the tricks of his predecessors, nobody should be bothered or even surprised by the ability of politician’s to speak nonsense.

It’s like I said earlier, it’s fine to look back at all the instances when carriers have been useful, and imagine lots of future conflicts where they might be useful again. This is precisely the line which Fox is going to try and sell us this coming week. But they have never (at least since WWII) been vital to the defence of the UK and they will be no more vital in the future.

Can I borrow your crystal ball? I’ve got some numbers I want predicting for Wednesday.

[I]In a “real” world, Fox would dump the carriers and their aircraft. He would save Nimrod (and order more), save Tornado, save Typhoon (all of them) and dump Harrier. But the issue is clouded by foreign policy and inter-service one-upmanship. None of this has anything to do with defence.

What a load of rubbish, Fox has been behind the carriers for years, since the project was announced in fact.

The RN should probably have, and by the way this would be a fantastic CSG.

1 CVF
1 Type 45
1 Tpye 23
1 SSN
1 Fleet Replen

If we were lucky otherwise it would just be the cvf type 45 ssn and a fleet replen ship

I’d be happier with 2 T45s and 2 T23s.