warbirdUKNice! who’s next? keep it going……………
Duxford’s own Spitfire polisher, Ashley, is to be made a Dame of the British Empire.
Why, is the water coming through the door? Oh, sorry! Dame not DAM!………………… (Apologies to Ashley 😀 )
warbirdUKOriginally posted by A330Crazy
G-CBEL… very clean aircraft. Fisrt time i’d seen a sea fury.
The first time I saw this A/C in the flesh was when I towed the outer wing panels by trailer behind the aircraft that was also towed on it’s wheels from Southampton docks to Eastleigh airport early on Sunday morning! A few weeks before John Bradshaw & I spent a day measuring all the bridges & obstacles along the route! It then flew from Eastleigh to Wroughton, the rest, as they say, Is history!
warbirdUKWelcome to Duxford Burger King where today at the far end of the hover car park you will see a variety of vintage flying machines on the holograph player………..
Would someone care to carry this story on? lets see where it goes!
warbirdUKOriginally posted by LesB
I don’t know the actual Bleheim’s hydraulic system but I can tell you that hyd systems in aircraft do not work like that. They may, in some cases all be fed from the same hyd main reservoir and pump(s) but each circuit will be independent and protected by NRV’s. [/B]
Depends how old the design is, I agree that modern A/C have lots of devices for priority systems but If it is a simple system & you loose all fluid then there is nothing to maintain pressue apart from a broken pipe, although I have to agree that there may be a shuttle valve in the system producing a hydraulic lock, still, It gives us something to talk about!
Cheers………
warbirdUKHi Mark12,
That is exactly how I see it , as my previous post, time will tell!
Cheers…..
warbirdUKHi DazDaMan,
I hear what you are saying, it’s a very emotive subject but It will take many truckfulls of fivers to get it back in the air! The other problem is that unless you know the funds are there before you start then the planning for the repair can never be accurate which in its self adds to the cost at the end of the day.
If it were sold then with the experience ARCo have then they would be the obvious choice to get the work that way they could do the work quicker so the job could cost less as there is no ‘learning curve’
warbirdUKDepending on the system assuming that the U/C is hydraulic then if you knock off the U/C leg it is safe to think that there will be a loss of pressure in the system therefore If the doors are held together by hydraulic pressure loosing the fluid & pressure would then allow the doors to open.
warbirdUKYou can guarantee that if there is damage on the outside then it will be much worse on the inside, as I understand it, the aircraft has spun through 180 deg on the ground, then lots of damage will have occurred, to repair it there is both the cost & the time scale to look into, remember, now ARCO is a fully fledged commercial operation & needs revenue to keep going, If the aircraft only had third party insurance & no hull cover then there is no pay for the repair work therefore It has to be put on the back burner so to speak while the paying work is done.
Possibly the best way forward would be to sell the aircraft to someone who has the money to fund the repair, I know it’s not what people want to hear but there are people out there with loads of money to throw at a project but they will want to own it at the end of the day rather than just sponsor the project. my personal thoughts are that the owner will have had enough after two restorations & will possibly not want a 3rd. It will be interesting to see what the outcome will be.
warbirdUKLikewise, I look forward to that!
Cheers
warbirdUKOK, Looks like I’m staying, & will try to understand others a little more!
Cheers 🙂 🙂
warbirdUKOriginally posted by Steve Bond
warbirduk. Excellent and very valid point – the areas of conversion training and currency are certainly of concern among the regulators. I hasten to add of course, that there are many owners / operators who do not fall into this category, but it is a worry.
It would be very interesting to see the currency on type over the last 30 days for many of these pilots, this is NOT a dig at the pilots, this is for their benifit more than anyone elses when flying different types lots of numbers go around in your head, do they come out in the right order on the correct type? Ask to see Dan Griffiths bag of check sheets, he needs a small van! & I’m sure he is not alone in that but It may come a time when you jump out of a mk5 into a mk9 with the wrong check list………….. (to jump out of a mk5 into a mk9, I wish!!):D
It all adds up to a very high work load.
Picture this,
You have an afternoon display slot, say 16.45 so you decide on a 16.25 start up as there is a fair way to taxy to the live runway, so you ask for ground power to be at your aircraft at 16.20, ground power is late, bless em, when are they ever early? start up at 16.30, warm up, get the t’s & p’s (temps & pressures) start taxy, hot day no airflow through the rads on the ground engine is getting warm, so is the cockpit! eventualy get to the entrance to the runway, carry out power checks, engine by now is getting near the max temp, held while someone lands, It is now 16.42 luckily the show is 10min behind so your display slot is now 16.55 You take off, climb out reduce RPM & cool the motor then go to the hold & stooge around untill you are called in to display…………….
So, as you can see, there is a fair work load on the pilot & not much time to do it in, maybe he is on his third display of the day at the same airshow in a different aircraft, It doesn’t take much for something to alter the smallest item to throw the whole chain of events out of the window & the pilot must be constantly up dating & evaluating the situation by the second not just by the minute! I hope this helps to give you an idea what goes on.:)
warbirdUKWell, Moggy, It wasn’t, but would you like it to be? 😉
warbirdUKAnother point to note, (and please take this the right way without jumping all over me) is pilot currency on type, to be able to leap from one type to another can some times be difficult, I lost a good friend Pete Clark that way some years ago, he was the demo pilot for the Slingsby Firefly & as I recall it he flew his 240hp display routine in an aircraft with a 180hp engine because the larger engine aircraft became un-serviceable! an easy mistake to make but, It cost him his life, and he was one of the most thorough pilots around. So currency on type must be a factor, practice flights have to be paid for, don’t get me wrong I’m not saying that owners reduce flight training but it has to be a factor to look at.
A few weeks ago I was stood next to an owner while a pilot was displaying to renew his DA (display authorisation) when the owner was heard to say, I wish he would hurry up, the fuel for this is costing me £xzy per minute!! The pilot had not flown the aircraft for around 4 months! Surely he should have some time to get acquainted with the aircraft before launching into a full display?
warbirdUKLearning_Slowly,
Just look at the numbers, let me quote the flying hours per year of the Dutch Spitfire up to 2000, the aircraft averaged at around 50 hours flown per year, general aviation aircraft flown around 50 per month depending on weather conditions, that was when I was working with a flying club in the mid 80’s
The numbers from the AAIB will range from a run off the side of the runway with little damage other than to the pilots pride to a fatal mid air. When most of the reported accidents for vintage/warbird seem to be at the worse higher end of the accident spectrum. It is worth noting these are REPORTED incidents! Also, the trend is for Vintage/Warbirds to have third party insurance only, as full hull insurance is an astronomical cost, However, GA aircraft will usually have full hull insurance due to the fact of having a training aircraft U/S is a loss of revenue that flying clubs can least afford especially when a lot of flying clubs lease aircraft from their owners.
So really hour for hour operation Vintage/Warbird accidents occur more frequently than GA aircraft. Hope this helps.
warbirdUKSeafuryfan,
But to voice an opinion if others don’t agree with it is, it seems, a no no, it is not debated in a normal way, it is either taken as an insult to the pilot/crew & their memory If one dares to write about what we all saw i.e. the Firefly crash, or people don’t look at the big picture regarding Airshows & the logistics for organisers. It also seems that, to some, unless an aircraft is displayed at the edge of it’s flight envelope wringing the last bit of performance out of it, it is thought to be ‘boring’ with ‘no excitement’ We must remember that Joe public may not know the difference between a stall turn & a wing over, therefore why stress & strain an airframe when there is no need to?
If you want to see aerobatics then watch the experts flying Extras & the like.
Owners & operators are very lucky If the fees paid by Airshow organisers for a 5 min slot cover the real operating & maintenance costs therefore I suspect many would welcome a toned down display to reduce stress on the airframe & engine,
I would never say that an aviation enthusiast didn’t know what he was talking about, but, in some areas sometimes it is obvious that there is a narrow mindedness creeping in, the poster who ‘Hates’ all other aircraft apart from the type they are passionate about, sure we all have our favourites but why slag off other types? Is that not a bit childish? Good natured banter is always around but it should not be malicious or insulting, especially If you don’t know the person.
Moggy,
From your posting I fear you might be too delicate a flower for internet fora, but then I have no idea what other postings of yours have been flamed.
What’s that all about?
It’s nothing to do with me being too delicate, It’s about looking at someone else’s point of view & thinking about it without dismissing it out of hand, that my friend is debate, not the poor imitation seen increasingly on this forum.
Sign In
