wilhelmIt appears that a ski ramp has been fitted at the bow. Some new pictures on the link below…
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=152513&page=62
wilhelmAnybody know what the differences are between the R-35 that was developed from the R-29? Looking at the just the basic data it was an impressively powerful engine (8500kg dry, 13000kg wet) in a package roughly the size of the J-79.
wilhelm=Jonesy;1472908]
the structural steel would have to be able to resist wind-imposed shearing loads. That means extreme stiffening such as huge steel piles or external bracing. Where the island is sited leaves no margin for external bracing.
As a minimum it should be piled….y
New apartment/office blocks of this height and much higher, obviously built with wind shear in mind, are completed in their thousands every month globally using steel pilings with no external bracing.
Of course a rebarred concrete core to the tower would do, basically, the same job as the deep steel pilings I mentioned myself. I accept that you can make this viable but the practicalities against the complexity just doesnt make sense and I cant believe it would to a professional Chinese civil engineer anymore than it would to a western trained one.
The issue with the point load still exists as well. It makes utterly no sense to put that tower structure where it is other than to make it ‘look’ like an aircraft carrier. Again you can reinforce the structure and the foundations to make it go there, but, why when you can just site it centrally, mark out the outline of the flight deck around it, and save yourself the significant bother and the expense?.
I agree completely. My post is just to answer to your assertion that this was a collapse waiting to happen. I give them more credit than that, as you have done now above. (Even though it could have been more efficiently and economically designed and built with a more centrally located tower. But then, cans of paint and old shipping containers at a backwaters airbase would be cheaper still.;))
Would I have designed and built this building shown above for it’s obvious purpose? Probably not. (definitely not;)).
But then who knows what the actual demand or criteria placed upon the architect and builders were?
Either way, I don’t really want to divert this thread into multi story design and theory.
.
…and do you recall the furore that was kicked off when that was getting built?. It was a template for the Chinese to learn how to build a Nimitz-type supercarrier – we were sagely informed that there would be fleets of Chinese CVN’s within a few years, then it was a radar trainer so that PLANAF pilots could get used to targetting a CVN radar profile and things got wilder from then…..until someone came along and said that well, urm, its a fairground attraction!
Once again, I agree. It was with some amusement that I followed the internet anguish that the “concrete carrier” generated.:rolleyes:
wilhelmOnce again, I do not think speculating is wise without seeing the actual details. I don’t have the time for details now due to workload, but although I see some of your points regarding the economy of construction of such a building, the fact remains that there are a few ways in which to circumvent some of the issues you have raised.
Quickly, and as an example, we have no idea whether the tower has a central structural concrete core with a steel cladding or outer shell. We have no idea whether this is completely independantly piled or whether the entire building has several basement levels that have large pilings of their own with reinforced tie-ins to the tower etc … etc…
I agree there are easier ways to design such a building from a commercial Western aspect, but then we are talking neither Western nor commercial here. This is a nation that built a theme park building out of concrete that extenally resembles a Nimitz class carrier. :confused:
Certainly, I personally would not be so confident to state…..
I’ll put £10 on, matching the same from anyone else, that that is a hoax or, if not, that it will be a disaster site within 3 years!.
…..just from a brief perusal of photographs. 😉
wilhelmThat wide angle picture REALLY doesnt look right!.
Thats a LOT of steel point load stuck on top of one section of that building right up at one foundation strip without any obvious buttressing or even apparent foundations for it. Unless this is built somewhere famous for never experiencing any wind whatsoever the sail area of that ‘island’ will impose loads that that building is just not going to sustain.
I’ll put £10 on, matching the same from anyone else, that that is a hoax or, if not, that it will be a disaster site within 3 years!.
We have no idea of the type of internal concrete and re-bar internal construction below the tower.
Short of digging up the replaced earth on the tower side of the building, we also have no idea of the size, depth, and composition of the foundations or footings on that side of the building.
I do not think this type of speculation is wise.
wilhelmswerve-
The alternatives to the Isreali help really are too minor and/or too costly to be realistic. Think of the four powerhouses and what the alternatives that you named may as well not take place because you are still outgunned by such a wide margin.
Can you furnish actual Israeli programmes or experiences directed or related specifically to the Dassault Mirage F1?
Swerve mentioned companies/nations that have actually assembled, operated or actively upgraded F-1’s…..
wilhelmWhat about the deck to hangar elevators?
wilhelmAs mentioned in the other thread, I’m sure that Rafale can be operated on the Sao Paulo at slightly reduced weights. A small number of Rafales used in the intercept role, much like the French used F8 Crusaders in such a role…
wilhelmA nice video of Sao Paulo operating Skyhawks and Trackers.
wilhelmActually, this has brought up some interesting questions Grim.
What exactly should the criteria be to join the security council? I think we all know that the original “entrance fee” was nuclear weapons. We all know that Germany could develop nukes at the drop of a hat. The willingness to commit troops to overseas areas is something that relatively isolationist China has no real history of doing. Is India ready for it when they still have the caste system and grinding poverty? The counter argument being that China hasn’t even got democracy.
Either way, the UN is a deepy flawed entity. The entire “Security Council” with it’s veto rights smacks of Orwells Animal Farm, although seeing as how some of the most primitive, corrupt, and repressive regimes pool their votes in racially based block votes (ie: OAU) shows that this is probably a needed evil. I personally haven’t much time for the UN. They should stop trying to feed the unsustainable amounts of proginey from certain quarters and spend that money on teaching people that the reason why they are starving is that if you cannot feed your 2nd or 3rd child, it is criminal behaviour to have 6 or 7 more. Sustainability.
Either way, back on topic: Brazil has had an SSN programme for many years now, and so this is interesting in that it might signal a more assertive stance from Brazil. The word is the Rafale is to be selected shortly, which will greatly boost the Air Force.
wilhelmGrim, so you’re implying population counts, but not current and potential economic conditions? Of course payments are as important to the UN as troops. Without payments, the troops couldn’t be deployed.
The facts are that currently India has the second largest populace in the world. Therefore, it stands to reason that they would have a very large army, much like the Chinese. If the UN pays for feeding and deploying a relatively large percentage of those troops, well then you must applaud that for it’s sensibility from the Indian side.:p
But I’m always wary of this numbers game. With that criteria, Nigeria should soon have a permanant seat.:rolleyes:
Either way, the UN setup is, and always has been, an extremely flawed organisation.
wilhelmAnother attack over the weekend on South Africa’s south coast.
Surfer dies after shark attack
2009-08-29 19:05George – A 25-year-old man who was attacked by a shark while surfing at Glentana Bay has died, the National Sea Rescue Institute said on Saturday.
“The victim was airlifted to a hospital in George in a critical condition where he was later declared dead after all efforts to save him were exhausted,” NSRI spokesperson Craig Lambinon said.
The man had been surfing with a friend at the bay between Glentana and Outeniqua, near Mossel Bay when the attack happened just after 15:30 on Saturday.
His friend brought him to shore.
wilhelmAnother attack over the weekend on South Africa’s south coast.
Surfer dies after shark attack
2009-08-29 19:05George – A 25-year-old man who was attacked by a shark while surfing at Glentana Bay has died, the National Sea Rescue Institute said on Saturday.
“The victim was airlifted to a hospital in George in a critical condition where he was later declared dead after all efforts to save him were exhausted,” NSRI spokesperson Craig Lambinon said.
The man had been surfing with a friend at the bay between Glentana and Outeniqua, near Mossel Bay when the attack happened just after 15:30 on Saturday.
His friend brought him to shore.
wilhelm.. a very big family compared to most modern families. But it makes for some Intresting get togethers as you would imagine. Diffrent mentalities:) Where abouts are you from? I myself am British (Scottish)
I’m one of 10 children, from a mother and father still very much in love after 55 years of marriage, so I know what you’re talking about. Christmas is an interesting time of the year.;)
I’m your typical New World mix of a few European nationalities with a strong German strain complemented by a smaller Croatian, Dutch, and Scottish mix.:dev2:
Does the Mistral class have any stretched or larger derivatives on the drawing boards? Something perhaps to bulk up into an effective F-35 platform? Mistral also makes an interesting comparison to HMS Ocean.
wilhelmWoah, calm, Cheese eating surrender monkey is actually a British term (See Fawlty Towers), I don’t think it is meant to disrespect the French fallen, more the actions of the French government during a few years in the mid 20th century.
I stand corrected. I’m a Fawlty Towers fan, so I’ll have another look.
It has though been used post 2003 by others not knowing the fawlty Towers reference, with the 1940 time frame being used to imply that the French have always been as such. Those who know a little more realise the political undercurrents and externally sponsored labour unrest that hamstrung the French in that year. Either way, thanks for the reference.
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