Tigershark, as pointed out by a few posters above, you only list the examples that seem to fit your “analysis”. Even the few examples you give are full of errors, such as the Iranian Mirage F-1 example. This jet has not been inducted into the Iranian Airforce.

Not a balanced comparison at all, even though the topic itself is interesting.

Jonjames, please back your rhetoric up with some intelligent examples please.

After spending the last few days browsing the net about this aircraft and trying to take in the information available about it would appear this jet is seriously late, the MFI’s from MIG were a complete waste of time as was the forward swept wing flanker.Reading between the lines i’d say the Russians know theres no way they can compete with the Raptor so there franticly changing the design fairly often as they try to figure just what they can market this thing, now it seems there trying to say it will be ‘differant’ from the raptor and not comparable. Well one things for sure they really don’t know what the hell there doing with this as they didnt with the MFI or forward winged Flanker

Thank you to Jon James for that enlightening and succinct insiders summary of the PAK-FA programme…..perhaps you should offer your services to the Russian aerospace industry?:diablo:

I hope you don’t take offence to the above, but you must also realise that Russia has completely changed its political and economic system, and that this has probably had a greater effect on their next generation fighter than any other factor. The USSR was torn asunder. Now Russia has finally established relatively steady economic conditions, which is no mean feat in itself. To say the Mig demonstrator was a waste of time shows no understanding of that programme. There was a second Mig vehicle , also part of that programme, which has never been shown. It apparentely is different from the publically unveiled first vehicle, which was to be used for various testing. The Berkut was also a test vehicle. That programme was designed for the USSR 20 or more years ago, which is different to Russia’s needs today.

Well one things for sure they really don’t know what the hell there doing with this as they didnt with the MFI or forward winged Flanker

I don’t think that’s for sure at all.

Perhaps we should await developments …..

Badger, were the sizes and weights of the upgraded Orpheus variants pretty much the same as the earlier ones? Do you have any info on the weights and dimensions of the Orpheus family?

Great thread. Heres a difficult request….

After sanctions in 1977, South Africa could not replace their Type-12 frigates as intended. They were originally after the Spanish-built Baptista de Andrade class that was subsequently inducted into the Portuguese navy following that countries coup in the early ’70s.

South Africa were then thwarted in their attempt to aquire the D’Estienne d’Orves class from France due to the 1977 embargo.

In the late 1980’s, an indigenous programme for a class of 1500 ton corvettes was cancelled, just as steel was about to be cut. This means that the design was settled already. From Proceedings and other publications, a 1500 ton design with Skerpioen SSM and perhaps a helicopter was suggested.

Does anyone know anything about this project?

I know this is not a very palatable thing to say, but we simply cannot just “un-invent” the motor vehicle. And with the relative success of the two most populous nations, China and India, this was inevitable. People aspire.

I believe that the only way to combat the downsides to this is to adopt the most pragmatic approach. Ever more money should be put into public transport, and cars have to be made smaller and cleaner.

The only really effective method may be to make public transport free.

Hmm. Since goose is so rich my first though was to go for something sharp and light to offset the richness of the meat but the more I think about it, the more a nice intense red fits the bill.

Oddbins are doing the Swan Bay Pinot Noir at a rather good price at the moment, so that looks like a good call.

Thanks, chaps. 🙂

If you’re going all out in the richness stakes, may I suggest a glass of fine port to go with your goose?

I think the Germans were well aware of the need for certain specialised metals or alloys in certain components of their jet engines, but had to find barely acceptable substitutes due to a great shortage of those alloy components as the war slowly ran its course.

rumcajs, my mother is German and we have always celebrated Christmas Eve around the tree opening our gifts. This is followed by a light supper and much socialising. Christmas day is reserved for a large mega lunch and lots of socialising and lying around. When I was child, we also celebrated St Nicholas Day with a slipper or stocking that would magically be filled with sweets the following morning. It had nothing to do with Christmas, which appears to be a melding and mishmash of these events from the US and turned into a commercial nightmare.

My wife is Irish and she likes the concept of the Christmas Eve around the tree opening gifts. Much more chilled. My daughter of 17 months is going to love it….:)