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PMN1

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Viewing 15 posts - 151 through 165 (of 240 total)
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  • in reply to: Nimrod AEW #2539259
    PMN1
    Participant

    Interesting history of the program on this site.

    http://www.spyflight.co.uk/Nim%20aew.htm

    in reply to: Merchant shipping #2071193
    PMN1
    Participant

    How ‘tight’ is the global shipping market, what effects would closure of the Suez or Panama Canals have forcing ships to make a long detour around the Capes.

    Same goes for the Malacca Strait, there are alternatives here but they still would be a detour.

    in reply to: Merchant Ship conversion to Aircraft Carrier? #2072097
    PMN1
    Participant

    By the time you’ve gone to the time and expense of chopping up an MV, you might as well build from scratch leaving off any nice to have but not vital pieces in a similar way to the RN WW2 Colossus class carriers.

    in reply to: Merchant shipping #2072327
    PMN1
    Participant

    Dibden extension

    What size ship is the Dibden extension planned for?

    Has the MOD looked at the implications for larger ships to be able to use Marchwood?

    in reply to: Merchant Ship conversion to Aircraft Carrier? #2072669
    PMN1
    Participant

    From the time indicated, any Argentine warships and Argentine naval auxiliaries found within this Zone will be treated as hostile and are liable to be attacked by British forces. This measure is without prejudice to the right of the United Kingdom to take whatever additional measures may be needed in exercise of it’s right of self-defence, under article 51 of the United Nations Charter

    Italics mine.

    Just the relevant passage, I can’t be bothered to copy the whole announcement, hope this helps.

    Sufficiently wooley to enable virtually anything to be done.

    in reply to: Saudi Typhoons and Rafales? #2507717
    PMN1
    Participant

    Does anyone know why with the current Typhoon order being at 72, the potential Rafale order is for 36?

    in reply to: Merchant Ship conversion to Aircraft Carrier? #2073385
    PMN1
    Participant

    The question of the 1982 exclusion zone is one of those things that is just picked up and since few reporters bothered to cross reference the original declaration becomes an urban myth. If people read the terms of the exclusion zone it quite specifically did NOT exclude military action outside the zone, however few media outlets have ever bothered pointing that little fact out:(

    Out of interest, do you have the actual wording as I’ve never been able to find something that hadn’t been scrambled by the media, the politicians and more recently the web apart from something I read at the time.

    Also, do you remember if the attack on the Hercules was reported much at the time, its just the only time I can remember hearing about it was on an episode of Have I Got News For You when they showed footage of what was apparently the Hercules being scuttled.

    in reply to: General Discussion #338446
    PMN1
    Participant

    Leaving it open for a second series perhaps…….

    in reply to: The State Within #1940891
    PMN1
    Participant

    Leaving it open for a second series perhaps…….

    in reply to: Merchant Ship conversion to Aircraft Carrier? #2073578
    PMN1
    Participant

    The Cunard Container Ship “Atlantic Conveyor”

    http://www.naval-history.net/FpMNAtConveyor-Harrier.JPG
    Aircraft/helicopter support ship “Atlantic Conveyor”
    practising Sea Harrier landings before sailing south

    http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/ac.gif
    Not the containers forming walls offering some protection

    http://www.harpoonhq.com/images/Falklands_War/Falklands_conveyor_002.jpg
    The support ship Atlantic Conveyor carried a number of British aircraft and helicopters to the Falklands. (Again notic the walls and in this shot you can see how the harriers were able to be used even during the Ferry trip

    Would you like to know MORE?

    Only the Sea Harrier on the landing pad could have been used in any kind of a hurry to deal with any snooping Hercules etc.

    The other Sea Harriers had only enough fuel in their tanks for a short hop between ships at the start and end of the ferry mission and the RAF Harriers would have had to be unwrapped as well as having only limited fuel.

    The danger from snooping Hercules was there as can be seen from the experience of the neutral tanker Hercules – the Argentine atack on this is something never mentioned when people complain about the attack on the Belgrano, admitedly it was done after the attack on the Belgrano but it destroys any moral high ground the Argentines could claim.

    http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/supct/AmeradaHess.htm

    By June 8, 1982, after a stop in Brazil, the Hercules was in international waters about 600 nautical miles from Argentina and 500 miles from the Falklands; she was outside the “war zones” designated by Britain and Argentina. At 12:15 Greenwich mean time, the ship’s master made a routine report by radio to Argentine officials, providing the ship’s [488 U.S. 428, 432] name, international call sign, registry, position, course, speed, and voyage description. About 45 minutes later, an Argentine military aircraft began to circle the Hercules. The ship’s master repeated his earlier message by radio to Argentine officials, who acknowledged receiving it. Six minutes later, without provocation, another Argentine military plane began to bomb the Hercules; the master immediately hoisted a white flag. A second bombing soon followed, and a third attack came about two hours later, when an Argentine jet struck the ship with an air-to-surface rocket. Disabled but not destroyed, the Hercules reversed course and sailed to Rio de Janeiro, the nearest safe port. At Rio de Janeiro, respondent United Carriers determined that the ship had suffered extensive deck and hull damage, and that an undetonated bomb remained lodged in her No. 2 tank. After an investigation by the Brazilian Navy, United Carriers decided that it would be too hazardous to remove the undetonated bomb, and on July 20, 1982, the Hercules was scuttled 250 miles off the Brazilian coast.

    in reply to: Merchant Ship conversion to Aircraft Carrier? #2073632
    PMN1
    Participant

    Turbinia, Interested in your comments as always. Assuming a container or container RoRo is the prefered option, how do they hanger any aircraft if they don’t have lifts ? Is it a case of fabricating a ramp and winching aircraft up and down it to the lower levels or is everything done on the very top level ?

    Maybe if someone could post a cutaway image of the internals of a ship like this I might be able to visualise it better.

    The cheap (though not so cheap as it turned out) and nasty quick Arapho/ SCADS idea didn’t have hangers as such, the outer wall of containers provided a wind-break and you may have had a roof over the aft end of the ‘flight deck’ to make a limited (and very limited) area for maintaining aircraft under cover.

    Basically, all the operational stuff was just added to the weather deck.

    I have never come across an image on the net for this, though haven’t really looked for one till now.

    in reply to: Merchant Ship conversion to Aircraft Carrier? #2073651
    PMN1
    Participant

    A container is not really a good option. The big ones have their bridges in the middle to give additional transversal strength and work against torsion.

    The Arapho/SCADS (Shipboured Containerised Air Defence System) illustrations I’ve seen have fixed wing activities forward of the superstructure and helicopter activities aft and given the size of large container ships these days that would be fairly easy.

    Given their size, I do wonder if there would be some reluctance in putting so much cargo (all important) into one ship, much better to put it in to smaller container ships and use the really big ones at MACships.

    The US Prepo Container ships are not much bigger than 3,000 TEU, though that may be in part due to what has been available and what they need to carry.

    in reply to: Merchant Ship conversion to Aircraft Carrier? #2073660
    PMN1
    Participant

    Turbinia: Yes they are susseptable to damage, but the shere fact that these vessels are in and out of dry dock faster than a ferarri at a Formula 1 race with the dings and dents fixed up tells you that they can handle it. I wouldn’t be too suprised if an ADCAP went straight through one without exploding and still looked for a target to hit.

    The Main deck is a null and void part of the equation, ever heard of the MAC ships of WWII?

    http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/images/hmsempiremacalpinempl864.jpg
    HMS Empire MacAlpine.

    Notice the flight deck? Notice how there is no Island? and with todays technology we really don’t need an island structure. Besides even if you did have a block island running across the beam, VSTOL doesn’t need a runway nor do Helos or Ospreys or for that matter BA-609’s

    Click here for more on the MAC ships of WWII or read “Jane’s WARSHIPS of World War II buy Collins Publications

    MACships did have island, you can see it in the photo you attached.

    The problem was lack of hanger for the tanker MAC’s at least, GrainerMAC’s had a hanger for 3 Swordfish.

    So anything using a Car Carrier is going to have to have to have all work done in the open on a very high flight deck, from what I can see, Car Carriers have all the built in problems with a Ro-Ro, (One hit and roll over) for no real advantage over a standard Ro-Ro.

    in reply to: Merchant Ship conversion to Aircraft Carrier? #2073912
    PMN1
    Participant

    I am interested in the proposition of a modern conversion of commercial ship to aircraft /helo carrier conversion but unfortunately know virtually nothing about merchant ships.During WW2 the probably most successful conversion was the Sangamon Class Oiler later evolved into the Commencement Bay class however a ship of that size would not be big enough today. What dimensions would a successful modern conversion need to be, I reckon a ship about 600-700 ft long capapable of of having good seakeeping qualities and also capable of supporting a flight deck about 100 ft wide & capable of dealing with aircraft weights up to about 25-30 tons.Anybody know of a commercial ship about this size,I imagine a container ship would be the go these days. I think a ship like this would need to be only an easily convertible standby measure to be used in times of emergency. It is obvious that I have little idea of what might be able to be done. I have a distant memory that the RN toyed with the idea in the early 1980s I think it had a project name that sounded like a North American Indian tribe but I cant remember what it was.

    Arapaho

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/arapaho.htm

    http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=30205

    In practice, it turned out not to be all that cost effective from what has been said.

    in reply to: Merchant Ship conversion to Aircraft Carrier? #2074040
    PMN1
    Participant

    What I would say to this is that you need to remember that Maersk are looking at maximising the funds they can get from off loading older ships, and that this particular proposal may not offer the best value for money or the best technical solution. Trust me on that one.

    On the other hand, the AFBS proposal would spend most of its time sitting at anchor along with other Prepo ships or Surge Sealift ships.

Viewing 15 posts - 151 through 165 (of 240 total)