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Marcellogo

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Viewing 15 posts - 691 through 705 (of 1,560 total)
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  • in reply to: F-35 News and discussion (2016) take III #2144587
    Marcellogo
    Participant

    The F-35B wings are full of fuel all the way to the tip.

    The F-35C wings are full of fuel only to the wing fold. The folding outboard sections don’t have fuel tanks in them. This is because folding fuel tanks leak and leaking fuel is a bad thing on a ship where one worries about fire at sea. Besides, the outboard wing is very thin and doesn’t hold much fuel, but does have a small spoiler to counter wing drop.

    F-35C wings are also larger than F-35B, 13 meters against 10.7.

    in reply to: Russia moving tac air troops to Syria #2145171
    Marcellogo
    Participant

    Ah! Just some teething problems on new tech – a bit like an Armata tank breaking down on Red Square.

    Levsha, seriously: how much are you old?
    Because not even my ten years neptew wouldn’t say something so childish…

    in reply to: Russia moving tac air troops to Syria #2145188
    Marcellogo
    Participant

    If Russia has an air base right there, why are they even bothering with the carrier?

    Russian story on crash
    Google translation

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2273357.html%3Fthread%3D238207821&usg=ALkJrhhARsZTixuASO5RdEb7ckLeXsVtpw#t238207821

    Several levels removed from primary source, but why would the commander be punished if a plane had to divert?

    Because he had tell to the pilot to wait unti the malfunction will be repaired instead of sending him immediately toward an alternative landing place.

    in reply to: Should the Brits have accepted the Rafale design? #2145665
    Marcellogo
    Participant

    Nearly all combat aircraft production is carried out in multiple final assembly locations. The Flanker has at least 3 assembly locations, even 4 if you include Chinese production. The Rafale should gain a new assembly plant in India soon. Let’s not talk about the F-16, F-35, etc.

    If this is the only contestation you have about my post, it went WAY better than I expected.

    in reply to: Should the Brits have accepted the Rafale design? #2145718
    Marcellogo
    Participant

    In the initial program, the one with all inside the idea was to get cost savings trough a shared development and massive production numbers, both thing that the more the less happened for the ones that remained inside, in the mean time there was the necessity to use the program also for job creation, hence the apparently not-economical decision of having separate assembly lines.
    The successive mess happened for two main reasons: first the so called peace dividends, that affected Rafale as well, and resulted in both programs being delayed too much, the other, unavoidable in any multinational program, was the different prerequisites; technical, operative but also socioeconomical and geopolitics the different air forces and governments partecipant in it had.

    In case of France, they were so big that they decided to separate from the other and pursue a national program.
    They have the necessity to have a carrier capable version and a plane capable to keep on the good export success of the Mirage-s, first one was achieved, while the second IMHO not. Let’s repeat: IMHO, so the cousins don’t get angry.

    Eurofighter consortium still kept the same problem but magnified almost for three (I didn’t know too much about Spain, so i’ll skip it, if someone know anymore , please…).
    Main members respective starting points were in this case not just different but absolutely opposite.

    Germans, according to their national character, wanted to keep both numbers and spending at the initial level, hence they went to cheapest configuration possible.

    We instead were absolutely well covered in A2G role but in the direst possible straits for what it regard the A2A, so we forth according to our own operative doctrine and our own language also: as there is not a word in italian for fighter, there is not space in AMI for anything multirole.

    Uk instead went forth according to its own (or better Blair’s ones) geopolitical ambitions at the point they went into a separate shock acquisition of initial strike capabilities outside the common’s framework, with all the disproportionate cost associated to it.

    Let’s just remember how those framework worked: in order to avoid the shortcomings of the precedent Tornado program in which they acquired a common initial configuration but added separated upgrades, hence ending in having totally non compatible configurations, it was decided to develop all together a whole series of upgrades, hence saving the interoperability but allowing all member to pick the cherries they were interested in.

    Result was that the initial configuration was the non compromised top caccia Italian asked for and that we kept to upgrade in the same direction, Germany not just limit itself to the minimum indispensable upgrades but even went in acquiring a downgraded version and Uk, not wanting to wait the agreed timeline for A2G upgrades, had to do for itself.
    In any case, I have to repeat myself, anyone get in the very end what it really wanted for by the whole thing.

    Just there was a price to pay for this, hefty for someone, acceptable for other.
    Let’s say that in this case, greater the ambitions, greater the disappoinments.

    in reply to: Should the Brits have accepted the Rafale design? #2147006
    Marcellogo
    Participant

    Yes. The way Kovy plays with numbers is hair-raising.

    If economics are at play, just look at the local industry then and now:
    – BAe went from being moribund to leadership
    – Germany boosted its industry for a couple of decade more with excellence in R&D
    – Spain raised in a position where it became unavoidable for Airbus to compromise its integration
    – Italy had yet another round in fighter production (a position probably similar to France: no gain but no losses).

    So, in overall, the path has been torturous and nearly led to total collapse not so long ago, but at the end it would be positive with even a last upgrade in total coherence with the vision at its inception and present day’s needs

    Also for us there were great industrial advantages in partecipating in Eurofighter programme: remember how we just had a round more than all the others even before it with AMX.
    Add that we are actually producing the M-346, that’s is really an export success, not just in Kovy’s skewed metrics, and that we will be the ones actually producing the F-35, not just for ourselves but also for Netherlands.
    So, we actually enjoyed a continuated fighter production run from 1969 until now and we’ll keep on for almost a decade to come (and I have forgotten to check for the G-91!) .

    in reply to: Should the Brits have accepted the Rafale design? #2147134
    Marcellogo
    Participant

    Oh, so exporting more typhoons than the total number of all Gripen and Rafale respectively produced is a flop?
    According to your reasoning, the best way to have exporting success is to discontinue internal order for the plane and give away the existing one at a token price.
    More seriously, export is actively sought by countries to recover money spent into developing and acquiring planes for their own defense.
    Only european fighter to have had an oustanding export success was however the Mirage, in its different iterations, so don’t feel my considerations as a deliberate offense to any nation.
    Also because it seems me that I ‘ve no spared my own one either, in my criticism of the whole Eurocanard mess.
    Problem with Rafale’s export was however that they happened just very recently, so to force them to acquire their own at a snail’s pace while the multinational approach allowed almost a good production rythm.
    On the other side, France had plenty of modern Mirage 2000, so it was not in the dire straits the main eurofighter partner (and above all my own nation) were.

    Marcellogo
    Participant

    It can’t be installed in anything currently flying except the T-50 and the Su-35S, due to increased fan diameter compared to the Al-31F series.
    As for any future aircraft, I think that at least the engine core shall be recycled for several different projects.

    Thank for reply.

    in reply to: Should the Brits have accepted the Rafale design? #2147783
    Marcellogo
    Participant

    From a well respected member in this forum

    We know the French and Brits clashed over the design of the Eurofighter and France went their own way. Now in hindsight, both fighters are more or less the same, with Rafale being slightly better in A2G and carrier capable, and EF being slightly better in A2A and not carrier capable.
    I would also have to agree, I don’t think Spain, Italy or Germany would’ve cared if it was Typhoon or Rafale in the end.

    http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=15657&t=1

    I remembered well those discussions: your initial assumption is absolutely wrong.
    And also a little insulting as nor we nor Germany or even Spain are 2 tier nation, above all when we are talking about industrial capacity.
    There were not in any case a willingness from anyone to find a compromise.
    We were absolutely adamant about a 101% air superiority plane with not a gram dedicated to ground attack, Germany wanted them cheap as possible to the point to explore also a single engine option, Uk asked to have an engine that could be used also for a Tornado MLU, France wanted instead a different plane, lighter and A2G oriented (and to lead anyway).
    Spain was the only one, being objectively an junior partner and an absolute beginner, to compromise their initial requirement, for what it sided initially with France after the splitting, and adhere instead to the paneuropean project .
    In the end, as it was to be expected by such a mess, they all received what they wanted, right in their face.
    Initial batches turned out to be so A2A oriented that plane was indered in its export, even the german derated version (without IRST as an example) turned out excessively costly, Tornado remained with the original engines and Uk was forced to launch a national shock program to give the Typhoon some initial A2G capabilities that other partners was not interested in and France went into a 100% national project that turned out to be exhausting for their own defence fundings, an export flop (until last two years) and ended up to being produced at snail’s pace for keeping production line open.

    Marcellogo
    Participant

    When there were two things about the Mirage 2000C which were not excellent, then it was the radar and the engine. The RDM (Cyrano V) monopulse radar was an inverted-Cassegrain, a warmed-up Cyrano IV financed directly by Thomson-CSF. This variant was originally intended to be export only, French AF have rejected the type in favor of the RDI but were forced to accept it for the first 37 Mirages in order to promote sales. The look-down/shoot-down range in pulse doppler mode was very poor (only 20 miles) and the Super 530D missile was not supported.

    Similarly, the M53 engine is the most primitive design of the 4th Gen series. Unlike the Rb.199, RD-33, F404 or F110, it is not a twin-spool turbofan but a much simpler single shaft continuous bleed/bypass turbojet, basically an ATAR 9K50 with enlarged stages and added bypass duct aft of the 3rd compressor stage.

    Yes, it was a continuation of Mirage line, updated with the most recent technologies but keeping in the same weight class.
    Simply as it was the engine offered more power in military than the original Atar 9KC of Mirage III in full afterburner, hence great performances.
    It failed however to secure itself contract in Nato nations, except Greece, that preferred intead to buyamerican ones (or skipped 4 gen already) and were anyway looking for superior category planes.
    So even for that France decided to acquire a larger plane but initial plans for a common european fighter failed, as their requisites were too divergent by the ones of other partners and they went for Rafale, smaller and more A2G oriented.
    Not the best move IMHO as it doesn’t worked neither for export, too complicated, nor for getting large scale production savings as the Typhoon would have granted with them in.

    Marcellogo
    Participant

    are you sure? can’t find it.

    http://www.analisidifesa.it/2016/07/leonardo-finmeccanica-presenta-a-farnborough-il-nuovo-m-346ft/

    http://argomenti.ilsole24ore.com/m-346.html

    http://www.leonardocompany.com/-/farnborough-m346ft-2016

    Correction, it was the 2 of August , so I think is now out of the shortlist, but if you use the search button and write M-346FT Italy Usa it will pop out.

    Marcellogo
    Participant

    Yes, Swerwe , we are basically saying the same thing.

    French front fighter line was always composed by almost two different age jets because the newest plane they produced was not conceived as a substitute for the precedent one but for the one that preceded it, so they kept two lines open offering the precedent one more updated version for export.
    It was the Rafale the one that broken this tradition cause the long interval between its own design, its introduction in service and low production rate.
    It’s in every case interesting to note, how before the Rafale, the French always tried to introduce a larger two engined fighter plane(F2 or Mirage 4000) but in the end they ended up to acquire a scaled down version, derived by the original Mirage + the novelties of the aborted project.

    Marcellogo
    Participant

    Right. It is also a way to have ersearch bureaus up to date.

    Let’s remember also that Dassault is a private enterprise in France’s state-owned dominated industrial landscape, so skipping a generation it’s not something they can just afford.

    Marcellogo
    Participant

    Can’t tell if serious.

    You can’t, TR1? I have just quit laughting about it just now.
    Ok, I know we are now in the age of post truth but also this have a limit.

    Marcellogo
    Participant

    IIRC the Mirage III/V/50 was in production alongside the Etendard IV, Jaguar, Super Etendard & even Mirage 2000. The Mirage F1 overlapped with the Mirage III/V/50, Jaguar, Super Etendard & 2000. Jaguar & Super Etendard overlapped. The 2000 overlapped with the Rafale. I don’t think there was a time France didn’t have at least two combat aircraft building until the Mirage 2000 line closed.

    Swerve, most of them belong to different classes of planes: Jaguar is an Air force attack plane, Etandars are from the Navy. They have to be considered ecquivalent to Su-17 and Mig-27 and the A-6 and A-7 respectively, calling them fighters is a bit of an overstretch.
    About production of the Mirage series i.e. the air to air combat line, how I have said the III and the F1 were not conceived one as the substitute of the other, nor the Rafale as the one of the 2k, so it’s just natural that a minimum of overlapping between a plane and the one it would replace (i.e. III and 2K / F.1 and Rafale) would occour, above all when it regard top export sellers like the (earlier) Mirages.
    For the rest, we are in such a situation so crazy that the production lines of both F-15 and F-16 are still up and running while the one of F-22 was closed year ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 691 through 705 (of 1,560 total)