Thanks for the info. I was searching for info on whether SAMs had been added. By Simbad I take it you mean a crewed twin Mistral launcher? Why oh why oh why not at least Sadral??? And why not some of those radar guided single Bofors 40mm mounts that only Brazil seems to use?

Where abouts are the Simbad fitted?, I’ll update the relevant graphic.

Re the Rafale, it’ll be great when France does chose to deploy them in a truly multirole mode – as far as my research could ascertain only 3 strike equipped Rafales have so far actually been deployed and the Super Etendard is likely to remain as the ship’s strike platform for a couple of years due to costs. Now I agree, and I believe I commented to the effect that, France could deploy a much more potent all-Rafale multi-role air wing on the CDG at short notice if the need arose. Presumably more Rafales with strike capability enabled will deploy next time she sails (imminently?).

Re Kuznetsov max air wing, if you combined the hanger and deck storage you could certainly carry many more than the current typical air wings. As I showed Su-33 actually folds up quite small, and MiG-29K is a possibility. However, I can’t see a max air wing being deployed for some years due to airframe availability, cost, need and aircrew training needs.

Also, re the Argentinean deployments, I was aware of them but they don’t count as ‘typical’. Part of the basis for my comparison was Typical situations, not the maximum feasible or future fit – hence I didn’t go into great lengths about many of the things people have “corrected” me about. And also why I haven’t tried “defending” my analysis very much. 😀

Simbad have been fitted in 2007 (first pictures september 2007). They come from NAel Minas Gerais decommissioned carrier. The two launchers are curiously on port side of the ship? NAe Sao Paulo didn’t have a real activity since may 2005 (no jet opérations). She put to sea in late 2007 for sea trials, but was in dry dock in early 2008. Waist cat is still inactive. Brazilian A4K are 20 and 3 A4KU (can’t land on carrier). Many of them are in storage. May be 6 are fully “ops”. There is also a problem of pilot’s carrier qualification. None of them have seen a carrier deck since may 2005….So “typical situation” for the Sao Paulo is “no plane” for the moment… with a massive effort, she could have may be 12 A4K on board, and 12 helos, but I don’t think we will see this for a while….
Crotale and Sadral have been removed from the Foch after the sale (in Brest before Sao Paulo sails to Rio). 100 mm creusot loire guns had been removed during 1997 refit.

For CDG-Rafales: Yes, next CDG airgroup will have 12-16 SEM, 10-14 Rafales F2/F3, (no F1), 2 E2C, helos…inlate 2008, early 2009, with Forbin DDG as escort.

For AFFS Kuznetsov, Russian navy has only 24 SU33 (may be less, one was lost recently) operating with 279th KIAP. Two SU33UB are used for trials (prototypes). 6 SU25UTG are also operating with 279th KIAP. No MiG29K in Russian Navy (two prototypes in 1988).

Regards

X

Maybe, but it doesn´t match the other CG images from of those designs:

you’re right, the lateral side of main superstructure is different.

Russian Su-33 warplanes exercise in Mediterranean 15:38 | 08/ 01/ 2008

MOSCOW, January 8 (RIA Novosti) – Russian Navy carrier Su-33 aircraft and combat helicopters have launched a training exercise over the Mediterranean, an aide to the Russian Navy commander said on Tuesday.
Capt. 1st Rank Igor Dygalo said a Joint Naval Task Force, comprised of the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier, the Udaloy-Class Large Anti-submarine Ship Admiral Levchenko, the Sergei Osipov auxiliary vessel, and other vessels continued to perform a variety of missions in the central part of the Mediterranean Sea.
The Admiral Kuznetsov’s main fixed-wing aircraft is the multirole Su-33 (NATO reporting name ‘Flanker-D’), which can perform air superiority, fleet defense, and air support missions and can also be used for reconnaissance and the searching for naval mines.
The two-month expedition, which started on December 5, is aimed at ensuring a naval presence “in the operationally key areas of the world oceans” and establishing conditions for secure Russian maritime navigation.
Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said previously that a total of four warships and seven other vessels of Russia’s Northern, Black Sea and Baltic Fleets, as well as 47 airplanes and 10 helicopters, would take part in the 12,000-mile expedition.
In mid-August, Putin announced the resumption of strategic patrol flights, saying that although the country halted long-distance strategic flights to remote regions in 1992 with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the ensuing economic and political chaos, other nations had continued the practice, compromising Russian national security.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080108/95710715.html

Thanks for this drawing, Shiplover, and a happy new year for you too!

25 de Mayo did operate SUe between 1983 and 1986.
Rafale was scheduled to operate on Foch carrier after 1997 refit only as Air Defense F1 version, so with less payload… a little (1.5°) sky jump was fitted on the bow cat for take off.
French navy wanted in the 80′ to buy F18… so I think a version of this fighter would have been able to land on Clemenceau class carriers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9mGpkb8dfQ

may be a question of cost… French didn’t fit Arromanches with a steam cat for this reason…. longer BS4 cat was may be more expensive… and not useful for Indian Navy Sea Hawks
X07

x07,

According to my Google searches, 25 de Mayo never actually operated Super Etendards, because she was determined after trials to be too small to do so effectively.

Same thing for the Rafale on Clemenceau. The Rafale landed during trials without any stores, but could it operate effectively (especially in bad weather) and bring back more than a couple hundred kilos? For example, could the Clemenceau’s shorter wires stop a 16t Rafale doing a hard landing in rough seas without breaking anything?

I’ll compromise and concede you a couple of meters: the PROVEN minimum operational length to land a Hornet-sized aircraft is 195m. That’s the design length of the Charles de Gaulle’s angled deck back when it was intended to operate only Rafales. The French then decided to buy Hawkeyes after construction had started, and everyone knows the consequences… 😉

25 de Mayo did operate SUe between 1983 and 1986.
Rafale was scheduled to operate on Foch carrier after 1997 refit only as Air Defense F1 version, so with less payload… a little (1.5°) sky jump was fitted on the bow cat for take off.
French navy wanted in the 80′ to buy F18… so I think a version of this fighter would have been able to land on Clemenceau class carriers.