RayRNo big version of the surya kiran thing?
RayRI do to some extent, as well a few other members on Pakdef.info. Why we have choosen not to post this info plus a hell of a lot more is due to our own discretion. We regularly discuss what goes on amongst ourselves privately and all of us have decided that it is better for us not to post these things in public without permission from our individual sources or even pm them to people whom we don’t know.
An example an Indian member here called Golden arrow used to get on the case of the K-8 and Pakistan’s contribution in it. Truth being we were involved in it as well as the Thunder to a very large extent than is either known or divulged publicly. Hell my own chacha was involved in the K-8’s design team from PAF’s side along with many other PAF personnel and is now working on the Thunder design team. But whatever I get to know from him or other sources wrt Pakistan’s role is kept to me myself and the other people I’ve mentioned in my post. It’s only after we discuss among ourselves and consult with our sources that we decide what we ought to put forward for public consumption. And so far we have decided to post zilch details of our contributions in both the K-8 and JF-17 programmes. Just because it ain’t on the net does not meant that it does not exist.
Nowhere does any country hide the information about any of its products being used for an multinational project.that definitely increases the rating of the product internationally and improves its export prospects to friendly countries.So even if your information is taken at face value,what can be the weird logic behind keeping it under wraps?Is the reason this??
RayROriginally Posted by phrozenflame
All of Rayrubiks answers can be found via the Search Button, I’m sure he is educated enough to do that himself, His skills in English writing are the proof of that.
Originally Posted by redgriffin
I do to some extent, as well a few other members on Pakdef.info. Why we have choosen not to post this info plus a hell of a lot more is due to our own discretion. We regularly discuss what goes on amongst ourselves privately and all of us have decided that it is better for us not to post these things in public without permission from our individual sources or even pm them to people whom we don’t know.
Isnt it paradoxical to say that
1.something CAN be found just by searching the net.
2.that information actually CANNOT be found on the net becoz u didnt decide to post it.
Now who amongst u is spinning tales and who is speaking the truth?
Originally Posted by redgriffin
I do to some extent, as well a few other members on Pakdef.info. Why we have choosen not to post this info plus a hell of a lot more is due to our own discretion. We regularly discuss what goes on amongst ourselves privately and all of us have decided that it is better for us not to post these things in public without permission from our individual sources or even pm them to people whom we don’t know.
An example an Indian member here called Golden arrow used to get on the case of the K-8 and Pakistan’s contribution in it. Truth being we were involved in it as well as the Thunder to a very large extent than is either known or divulged publicly. Hell my own chacha was involved in the K-8’s design team from PAF’s side along with many other PAF personnel and is now working on the Thunder design team. But whatever I get to know from him or other sources wrt Pakistan’s role is kept to me myself and the other people I’ve mentioned in my post. It’s only after we discuss among ourselves and consult with our sources that we decide what we ought to put forward for public consumption. And so far we have decided to post zilch details of our contributions in both the K-8 and JF-17 programmes. Just because it ain’t on the net does not meant that it does not exist.
Incidentally werent u just saying about “basis” some posts ago?Now whats the basis of these claims?I guess u “heard this” from your “chacha”??
Originally Posted by Greenday1
They thought we could not do Cruise Missiles, order submarines, etc etc.
When news is release they crawl back. Leave it be.
Thats right.We are just waiting for the news on amraam integration on the JF- 17.
Dude, dont bother, these guys are here to stir it.
So what were u doing reminding us of “beef stew” a couple of days back in the IAF thread?
RayRgeez.. critical situation.
nokos test and now japan wants to pursue a millitary nuke program.
things are going wild!!!!
have to take a break…..decide whether to laugh or cry…..what goes around comes around….whatever that means. 😀
RayRNuclear test sparks international condemnation
Jonathan Watts in Beijing and agencies
Monday October 9, 2006
The Guardian
South Korean protesters stand on an effigy of the North Korean leader, Kim Jong Il, during a rally in Seoul against the nuclear test by North Korea
South Korean protesters stand on an effigy of the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Il, during a rally in Seoul against the nuclear test by North Korea. Photograph: Cha Young-Jin/EPA
North Korea today announced the successful conclusion of its first nuclear test, sparking a wave of international condemnation from old enemies and traditional allies alike.
The controlled explosion, carried out at Hwaderi, near the north-eastern city of Kilju, sent shockwaves across the world and escalated tensions in north-east Asia.
According to the US Geological Survey, a magnitude 4.2 seismic event was registered on the peninsula at 10.37am local time (0237 BST).
Article continues
Soon afterwards, North Korea’s Central News Agency declared the test a triumph.
The agency said there had been no radioactive leakage from the underground site, thought to be 2km down the shaft of an abandoned coalmine.
“The nuclear test is a historic event that brought happiness to our military and people,” it said. “The nuclear test will contribute to maintaining peace and stability in the Korean peninsula and surrounding region.”
Washington was unable to immediately confirm or deny that the explosion had been caused by a nuclear device.
“A North Korean nuclear test would constitute a provocative act in defiance of the will of the international community and of our call to refrain from actions that would aggravate tensions in north-east Asia,” the White House spokesman, Tony Snow, said.
“We expect the UN security council to take immediate actions to respond to this unprovoked act.”
By proving his country as the eighth member of the nuclear club, the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-il, has sacrificed its diplomatic and economic wellbeing for military security.
The international backlash against the test was universally furious. Tony Blair said it was irresponsible, while the Foreign Office warned of international repercussions.
China – a traditional ally of Pyongyang and its main source of energy and food – called the test a “flagrant and brazen” violation of international opinion.
Although Beijing has so far opposed US and Japanese pressure for UN sanctions, it today promised to “resolutely oppose” its neighbour’s conduct.
“China is angry. This action severely challenges the security of stability of east Asia as well as China’s national interests,” Shi Yinhong, a foreign affairs expert at Renmin University in Beijing, said.
“China must now deal with the call for sanction. If it endorses a UN resolution, then it will have a legal obligation to call off or reduce economic assistance.”
South Korea – which has previously pursued a softly softly policy with its bellicose neighbour – warned that the test could mark the end of engagement efforts, which culminated with a landmark summit between Kim Jong-il and South Korea’s then-president, Kim Dae-jung, in 2000.
“This is a warning as well as my prediction,” the South Korean president, Roh Moo-hyun, said after talks in Seoul with the Japanese prime minister, Shinzo Abe. “Under this situation, it’s difficult for South Korea to maintain an engagement policy.”
Analysts said Mr Roh would come under pressure to drop the “sunshine policy” of engaging with the North.
“This represents a greater threshold than previous crises,” the former foreign minister Han Seung-joo, who chairs the International Policy Studies Institute of South Korea, said.
“It will be very difficult for South Korea to continue with the policy it has pursued for the past eight years. I expect there will be a greater common front with the US and Japan.”
In a flurry of diplomatic and political activity, countries in the region are now discussing punitive measures, which could include tighter economic sanctions, naval stop and search operations and the withholding of development aid.
After his talks in Seoul, Mr Abe talked of a “new, dangerous nuclear age”, warning that Japan would consider “harsh measures” against Pyongyang.
The impact is likely to be felt most by North Korea’s already impoverished population of 22 million. “The question now is what will happen inside North Korea,” Edward Reed, of the Asia Foundation, said.
“Sanctions will mean a further reduction in standards of living and fewer resources for the people. It raises the question whether internal domestic pressures will become a factor in future developments.”
RayRPakistan ‘deplores’ N Korean nuclear test
[ 9 Oct, 2006 1439hrs ISTAP ]
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s Foreign Ministry on Monday criticized North Korea for conducting a nuclear test, calling it a “destabilizing development for the region.”
“It is regrettable that the DPRK (Democratic People’s Republic of Korea) chose to ignore the advice of the international community not to test a nuclear weapon,” ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam told a news conference in the capital, Islamabad.
Aslam said Pakistan, which is also a nuclear-armed state, supported the six-party talks aimed at getting North Korea to step back from its nuclear programme.
“Pakistan deplores the announcement by the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea that it has conducted a nuclear test,” Aslam said. “This will be a destabilizing development for the region.”
Aslam said the North Korean test was not linked to Pakistani nuclear technology that was delivered to the Pyongyang regime by disgraced Pakistani nuclear programme founder A.Q. Khan.
“There is absolutely no link between the nuclear test conducted by North Korea or what might have gone on by Dr A.Q. Kahn and the North Korean government,” Aslam said. “The North Korean programme is plutonium-based and Pakistan’s is mainly uranium based.”
Pakistani political analyst Talat Masood said the North Korean nuclear test could spark the proliferation of nuclear weapons across the Asian region.
RayRi thought i read reports of indian sailors training on the akula 2 already in russia.
RayRIs there any other motive for these exercises for the RAF other than develop counter tactics for the russian aircrafts?
RayRWhats the amount of indigenous pakistani components in the JF17?any one informed?and by indigenous i mean components designed and produced in pakistan and not any western components just manufactured in pakistan.
RayRRoyal Air Force chief to fly Sukhoi
Rajat Pandit
[ 8 Oct, 2006 0001hrs ISTTIMES NEWS NETWORK ]
NEW DELHI: Much like the Americans, the British too are keen to evaluate the most potent fighter in the IAF fleet, the Sukhoi-30MKI “air-dominance” jets.
And what better way to do this than to take a high-voltage spin in the twin-seater Sukhoi-30MKI itself while it tears through the skies. Visiting Royal Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal Glenn Torpy, no mean pilot himself with some 4,300 hours of fast-jet flying, is ready for the challenge.
“It will be a great opportunity since the Sukhoi-30MKI is one of the most modern fighters in the world,”said Torpy, talking exclusively to TOI on Saturday.
The RAF chief will take to the skies on Wednesday in Pune, even as his young pilots in their Tornado F-3 fighter jets take on IAF pilots flying Sukhoi-30MKIs, MiG-21 ‘Biso-ns’ and MiG-27s in the ongoing joint combat exercise ‘Indra Dhanush’ at Gwalior and Agra.
The Indian government, incidentally, has asked Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd to speed up its indigenous production of 140 Sukhoi-30MKIs to deal with IAF’s depleting combat fleet, which currently has little more than three Sukhoi-30MKI squadrons.
American pilots, flying their F-15Cs and F-16 ‘fighting falcons’, found the Sukhoi-30MKIs “simply awesome” while being more or less outgunned during recent Indo-US wargames.
The tussle, of course, is now between IAF and its progenitor RAF in the first such exercise being held between them for four decades. “The two can learn from each other, build relations and exchange ideas.
IAF can learn from our experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan,” said Torpy, who served in key positions during the ‘Desert Fox’, ‘Allied Force’ and ‘Iraqi Freedom’ operations.
“Our pilots, in turn, are exercising against a good range of Soviet fighters, which they have not done earlier. It’s very important for our youngsters to experience a different culture… India is a major player internationally,” he added.
Waiting to induct the Israeli Phalcon AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) next year, IAF is also taking lessons from the British E3-D AWACS aircraft during Indra Dhanush.
Then, of course, there is the key objective to build “interoperability” between the two forces, which will prove handy if they have to undertake joint operations in future, said ACM Torpy.
Interestingly, after flying the Sukhoi-30MKI, the RAF chief will also fly the Eurofighter Typhoon once he reaches UK. Being inducted into RAF now, it’s one of the contenders to bag the gigantic $ 6.5 billion Indian contract for 126 multi-role fighters.
“Typhoon is a superb and easy-to-fly fighter and we have 33 of them in service at the moment. We will be delighted if IAF decides on Typhoon. Saudi Arabia, for instance, is looking to acquire 72 Typhoons,”said ACM Torpy.
The Typhoon will have to contend with the Russian MiG-35, French Rafale, Swedish JAS-39 Gripen and the American F/A-18 “Super Hornets”and F-16 “Falcons”in the race for the Indian deal.
RayRIndia, Israel to setup Electronic Warfare Joint Venture
Daily News & Updates
Dated 6/10/2006
India and Israel are to setup a joint venture to develop advanced electronic warfare (EW) systems for their air forces’ fighter aircraft.
The proposed joint venture, the creation of which would cost around $100 million, is expected to get a go-ahead shortly with a signed deal between India’s Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE), Bangalore and the Elisra Group, Bene Beraq, Israel.
Seventy percent of the venture will be funded by DARE, which is part of the state run Defence Research and Development Organization, with Elisra Group paying the remaining 30 percent.
A senior DARE scentist said the proposed venture will likely get off the ground by the end of 2006 at DARE facilities in Bangalore. Elisra will develop approach warning systems, while DARE will develop cooling systems, electromagnetic interference and electromagnetic susceptibility systems, as well as system integration in the aircraft.
The program is to be fully operational in three years.
Systems for LCA, JSF
The scientist said this venture will see an advanced EW system called ‘Mayawi’ developed for India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighters that Israel plans to buy from the United States.
The EW system will feature advanced RADAR warning, RADAR jamming, and electronic combat and self defense systems. It will also have an Integrated Defensive Electronic Radio Frequency Countermeasures system to help protect the aircraft against RADAR guided missiles.
Its Advanced Threat Infrared Counter measuers will protect the aircraft against heat seeking missiles, and be paired with Common Missile Warning System.
“We are collaborating with Indian agencies for a number of defence programs, but, as per company policy we do not discuss specific programs”, said an Elisra executive. The executive added that DARE was s4lected as a partner after trying several other defence partners around the world.
A senior Defence Ministry (indian) official said India wants to forge alliances with Israeli companies to develop a variety of high-end defence technologies as a continuation of the growing Indo-Israel defence cooperation.
Elisra, notably, has helped DARE in the past to develop an EW syste, called ‘Tempest’ for the MiG 21 Bison fighter upgrade program. EW systems from Elisra are also being supplied for licensed production in India for 140 Sukhoi Su 30 MKI aircraft at the HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited) production center in Bangalore.
RayRhas there been any pix/report form gagan shakti either?
RayRin case the iaf gets (somehow) 40+ m2ks what wud be the status of the mrca?
the year being quoted is 2012.how many LCAs wud india have by then?
India to acquire 28 LCA’s by 2007(though this seems a litl outrageous, still if LCA is fully operational by 2010 then 20/year can be done)
So by 2012
1.120+ MKIs
2.at least 40+ LCA’s?
3.upgraded M2Ks(plus if some more acquired)
4.upgraded MIG29s.
so that wud mean the IAF wud hav a fairly potent force without the MRCA’s while the numbers cud be made up by the LCAs , the acquired m2ks and the extra MKIs.
edi
i dont think iaf has any plans to sell their Mig29s or peru selling their mirages for that matter.
RayR52 mirages upgraded to 2000-9 standards by 2012 isnt bad at all.but wont that just be killing the mrca programme?(considering m2k currently not a part of mrca).
also just inducting only 20 new rafales wud be a logistical problem for sure.
may be thats the underhanded french way of pushing in the rafale as the mrca.
RayRI never once mentioned the PAF has integrated AMRRAM with JF-17 yet. The fighter has not even entered service. I said it would be POSSIBLE to integrate AMRAAM with a Grifo radar should it be selected and if we were allowed.
If IAF will be 50% more powerful (who on earth did you come up with such a % figure si beyond me), look at the leaps and bounds by wihch its nearest rival will progress.
PAF
BVR
In flight refuelling
Erieye
F-16s
JF-17s
J-10s
TPS-77 radars
JDAMSUnlike alot of the IAF equipment which has yet to be ordered all of teh above HAVE BEEN ORDERED and are being delivered.
MRCA – No order
LCA (just 20)
PAK/FA – Will it get off the ground?No tell me, who is going to be 50% more powerful in 4 years?
greenday u forgot to mention about inducting this for the first time in pakistan
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