RayRYou talk of eventually getting 1000 T-90s
what will ur 310 T80s do in front of them eh??remember patton nagar?
Pak Army is now in the process of creating 2nd version of Al Khalid inducting lessons lernt from Lebonna and has 310 T-80UDs and 200 Al Khalids already in service.
how many versions will it require to be as capable as the T80s?
My point is India may well induct new equipment, but it is almost always doen as a reaction to rival procurments.
its soo just the reverse.
Interestingly you dont seem to be the only one conducting such religious mockery. It always seems to be Indian posters.Funny isnt it?
it everywhere it always seems to be islam.funny isnt it?
give up, I have made my points.
when??where??? :confused:
RayRNot to forget that PAF actually had a Mirage 2000-5 Project team and director set up when a purchase of this aircraft was imminent in the 90s.
I think current ACM may have even been Mirage 200-5 project director but could be wrong.
Also, there is a massive doctrinal debate within PAF going on that many people dont know about.
In its existance, every fighter pilot in every sqd has been multi role trained.
A-5 pilots do their share of QRA duty and F-7 pilots pratice alot of air to air. Almost equal measure is given to both duties.
With Erieye, F-16C/D, JF-17 and J-10, many see a requirement for far more time and resources to be delpoyed on air defence, especially as PAF will be kept very busy with the IAF. As a result, some squadrons may become “pure” air defence sqaudrons and give up any ground attack role.
These “pure” air defence sqaudrons may be the 3 J-10 sqaudrons the PAF is planning to create.
greenday,about that multi role trained i heard some ppl r worried about them being shunted here and there bcoz they dont get enuff flying hours even on one type.
and i also heard that 2 of the PAF engineers sent to china to work on the JF17 contacted US cos in china and jumped off the PAF wagon? :p 😀
RayRWell strictly by the definition of the term it was DACT, but nothing particularly serious..a couple of the F-16 pilots went up and tangled with the MKIs in WVR etc..
and it was reported that in the offensive scenario(MKIs attackin) the MKIs just walked over them F16s but in the defensive scenario…..well errr nobody knows what exactly happened.
RayRJust kicking around the old football! 😀
and also……..a ton of ****attracts flies 😀
RayRLOL, I agree, but he lets his mouth get the better of him..more claims, little facts..
As mentioned previously by Kalyan, its likely to be media misreportage, and only the K’s are involved.
Also MKIs were in WVR DACT @ Cope India-II.
in the F16 net forums “moose”(us pilot) said that MKIs “only did BFMs and split”
RayRI am sorry if math is a difficult subject. IAF cureently has 3 Phalcons on order, may order 2-3 more, and its “indegious” AWACs is still a non entity.
PAF had 6 Erieye on firm order and 6-8 Chinese AWACs is waiting to be confirmed. What part of this equationis puzzelling you?
IIRC those chinese awacs were second-runners which came into the front only after china failed to get the phalcon.
RayRAnother BIG advantage to the LCA IMHO:
Since they are locally produced, the procurement process will be a LOT faster. None of the RFI/RFP crap applies to multi billion $$ purchases so long as they are from within the country.RayR,
The MiG 29 upgrades will bring it up to SMT+ standards, it cannot be brought to the M standard simply because the M is a different airframe and has different engines RD 33 Mk (which i’m not sure will fit the original airframe). The recently concluded deal was for the RD 33 ser3 engines, which is what is used for the upgrade to SMT standards. I’m guessing you will have:
1) Payload increase upto 4500 kg (as in SMT)
2) Range increase upto 2000km + on internal fuel (as in SMT)
3) Zhuk M radar with decent A2A and SAR capabilities. Pit had mentioned somwhere that they are working on getting the resolution to 1meter on the zhuk M.
4) Avionics fit consisting of Indian Tarang RWR, Computers, Radios, Israeli EL 8222, French LRG, Russian MFDs?
5) I’m wondering what HMS it will use? Will it go the Sura way or the IN MiG 29k Topsight E suite?
6) Improved IRST
7) Considerable increase in airframe and engine life
Overall, it would provide an excellent upgrade and a decent counter to any Blk 52 IMHOHowever, I’d have liked to have seen some kind of buyback deal wherein the existing birds are replaced by brand new MiG 35s or Ms (even if based on the same radar). Shouldn’t have cost much more since they already are doing the upgrade for ~ $900 million.
REgards,
USS.
also included i think is the air-air refuelling capability.
all of these specs r similar to the Mig29K except that payload which i think is 5500kgs in the K.incidentally i found the combat radius of K on internal fuel is 850kms n with tanks is 1300kms.whys that different?
RayRI dont think the IAF will field the MKIs…call it gut feel.. the K’s are yet to be returned to Russia..
I wonder whats going to be the future..the IAF will not want to show off its MKIs, but if it uses only second string fighters, its opponents will be displeased..
K/MKs r still there.
i think india will be fielding the MKIs.after all they were already there in the RSAF and copeII exercises.BVR engagement?? not sure about that.
displeased opponents……implications…what cud that be?after all they didnt bring their top notch fighter.
RayRthe brits made the indian diplomats agree to field the MKI . the indians should have made them field the typhoon.
RAF bringing awacs??news reports say 8 tronados n VC 10.
RayRabout that mig29 upgrade .i hope they r gettin done to m2 standards with the zhuk ME.that will also increase commonality btw the mig29Ks for the navy.
about arjun
THIS i picked up from another forum where an israeli guy denil (who is someway related to developing the Arjun Mk2) says abt it(dnt know whether i shd be posting it here)
#1 Arjun is getting massive Israeli help and NOT 6 as being reported in many places in media, but 8 rolled out recently. There are some Armour and rifling techniques which Isreal has taken from India as they were truly impressive. Other than that a lot of contribution from Israel. NO I CAN NOTprove this right now. This is what i know after discussing Arjun with a high ranking scientist who is a member of the Foreign defense services board (rough translation from Hebrew) who have worked on Arjun for the last 9 months. I personally witnessed a really cool addition to the recent 8, it employs the exact same copy of the HW and SW as the Abrams self diagnostic system...not only does it tell you when the tank is not feeling well but also tells you which part. there is also a battle management system deployed….the funniest part was how decked up the CO’s Arjun was…the seats are amazing, even the Russian contingent (overpaid pricks) were emotionally moved to see the interior with all the widgets – and went the best capitalist tank (being sarc. and all)
…i think i will be able to SOMEDAY get pictures of the ARJUN M2 and let you folks see what i have seen…it a true comfort to drive that tank
I walk among diffrent circles compared to many out here on the forum and intend to build a reputation where people believe me without much fuss…as i will not always be able to post links (actually i am too deep into defense to rely on media and links to prove myself). Anyway i am off to a hunting trip organised my some army chaps here in India..will defanately take pictures and post that
#2 You really will have a problem …say in a desert coming close to this machine. This is a really good machine…the main gun beats the Merkava any day. Bloody hell the shear energy at extended range in ft.lb delivered with the accuracy is truly astonishing...i personally think this main gun is a accidental find for Indian’s. the saboy round penetrated the hull of a t-55 derelict then went through the second one behind it and the place where it pierced the sand dune had a formation of glass crystals around the sand.
I have an idea (to how the Pakistanis can get it)…when the crew falls to sleep driving this beast – due to its crew comfort…you could run to it and shove some tnt between the hull and the chaise
#3 I just saw the interior picture of Al khaled. You have a serious problem here. Is that a prototype or the finished product? I am serious , i really need to know this.
I truly hope that it is not a finished product. If it is, my god ” the very Question that arjune is a better tank is a understatement. You have no idea what you have here lads. Even if the idea is a “will get the job done and cheap to produce” Al Khaled can be mass produced is the idea of Pakistani Armour….etc etc….WHAT ARE YOU GUYS THINKING?
Someone here tell me what is the purpose of Al-k…isit supposed to take on the inferior Indian tanks and put the t-80 against the arjun (still crazy – Russian admit it will eat the t-90) ok maybe its a attempt by Pakistan to atleast get hold of technologies to create a tank..etc etc
the nuts and bolts in alkhalid will kill the crew if a HESH round even nicked it. moreso the LR-APFSDS will cut like butter the armour….you guys better get some good reactive armour on this tiny thing.please any experts here
i really wish to ask some questions on the al-khaled.
#4 Incidentally my father worked on a series of Merkava tanks (yes yes i am a Jew) i too graduated with honors in Armour. but right now in a slightly different objective in India. anyway i agree with you maneuver is imp. BUT THEN AGAIN in all the discussion i have seen here maneuver is something gone a miss here. i havent driven a al -k but this arjun is as maneuverable as a Abram M2(spent a lot of my time with these tanks) ..no bloody difference, i dont know maybe al-khalid is much better compared to A-M2 in maneuver. You will outrange it…by what 5000m from a reflexes Chinese copy of soviet projectile…do you think no one here thought of ATGM and countermeasure. This is the classified bit in electronics Israeli gave to Arjun. I am telling you buddy, someone better get serious about countering Arjun…its mere prototype passed direct hits from t-90 AP rounds (new round), it passed fragmented top attack munitions, You want to kill it.
a) you need to get it tracks off
b) in some way get the electronics off
c) hit it at less than 200 m from something like a Milan 3 repeatedly in hopefully the same area or
d)put a huge mine under it (has counter electronic to detect it…direct contribution from what is to be a Merkava 4 system)
e) i would have a serious debate going against this tank on a Merkava 3 and i am honors in armour and spent a few. I think the brits will be very very interested in the armour these people have developed or even the rednecks….thats the level and quality you are looking at.
RayRnick that that HAL orderbook list u provided doesnt include the M2k upgrade.isnt the HAL goin to do that?
btw last news about arjunMk2 was that it has already passed field trials and are ready for induction.how many of the 124 previously ordered r going to be M2k standards?any ideas?AFAIK the mk1 with the older FCS has a erratic first hit % of 20-80%.
RayRhi nick
well i was thinkin the LCA’s makin good progress.but looks like the bosses r worried.btw any news about whens that PV3 gonna fly and all that weapons integration thing?
i am guessin that the report can be a knee jerk rexn to the ACMs report gettin leaked.
RayRGovt set to put combat aircraft deal on fast track
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2067465.cms
NEW DELHI: Concerned over depletion of fighter squadron strength due to crashes and uncertainty looming over the country’s indigenous Light Combat Aircraft 🙁 , the Defence Ministry is likely to put the plans for purchase of 126 multi-role combat aircraft on fast track.
The Ministry, according to highly placed sources, is considering converting the Request for Proposals (RFP) into a full-fledged Request for Quotations (RFQ) to cut short the time interval between the evaluation and price negotiations.
Though the Air Force had put forward its qualitative requirements to the Defence Ministry for over a year now, there has been delay in issuing international tenders for the deal as the Ministry has only finalised its new offset policy in late August.
Under its new arms acquisition rules, the government has now made it mandatory that in all defence deals of over Rs 300 crore with India, the contract companies would have to implement 30 per cent offsets in defence sector.
“Ministry of Defence is finalising plans to convert the RFP into a Request for Quotations (RFQ) as this would compress the acquisition process to enable India to pick the deal by middle of next year,” a senior defence ministry official said.
Five major companies, US Lockheed Martin with their super selling F-16 fighting falcon, Boeing with their F-18/A super Hornet, Swedish Grippen fighter, new Eurofighter Typhoon, Russia’s MiG 35 and French Rafale are in the race. Recently, the IAF’S effective fighting strength has plunged to 36 squadrons due to crashes and want of spares for the Russian acquired MiG fighters.
This would be further depleted when the Air Force goes in for mid-life upgrades to its frontline fighters like MiG-29 and Mirage 2000. The LCA which is supposed to be the replacement for the aging MiG-21 fighters are yet to go through the process of weaponisation and systems integration.
Concerned over the falling strength in the country’s air power, Air chief SP Tyagi had recently written to the government drawing its attention to urgency to bring the IAF fighter strength back to a level of 39 squadrons.
He had even suggested that prior to induction of the 126 multi-role combat aircraft, the government could consider interim acquisition of about 30 to 40 fighters to enable his force to meet operational preparedness. The Air chief in his letter to Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee also expressed concern over Pakistan arming itself with more F-16 fighters.
The Pentagon has recently notified to the US Congress that it intends to clear the sale of 36 Lockheed Martin F-16C/D to Pakistan. Under the new deal, Islamabad would for the first time get the AMRAAM capability known as Beyond visual range air to air missile.
Wary of going though the process of acquisitions twice, the government instead is considering compressing the process of acquisition of the 126 fighters, officials said. The IAF had earlier suggested a certain number of Mirage-2000 jets should be purchased as an interim measure to keep the force’s strength at an optimum level. However, Dassult, which makes the Mirage, has closed its assembly lines for the jet.
RayRInduction of new combat aircraft unlikely now
Sandeep Dik****
NEW DELHI: Despite the dwindling strength of Indian Air Force’s (IAF) combat fleet, plans to induct 126 multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) to replace the retiring MiG fighter series and other aircraft are unlikely to materialise in the near future, according to official sources.
The combat strength of IAF fighters is expected to dip to 29 squadrons by the end of the next fiscal. With neither the indigenous fighter Tejas nor the MRCA unlikely to be immediately inducted, the IAF is banking on an accelerated production of Sukhoi-30 MKI and the Jaguar to partially make up the numbers.
Sources said this depletion has necessitated the IAF designating the soon-to-be-inducted Hawk advanced jet trainer aircraft in the combat category. It has also decided to increase the number of MiG-21s, after providing them with an upgrade to increase their service life.
Recently, Chief of Air Staff S. P. Tyagi had said the IAF required the 126 MRCA “now.” However, Ministry sources said even if the Government asked companies to send in their proposals — through a process known as request for proposals (RFP) — today, a final decision would not be taken before at least two to three years. This optimistic timeframe would hold unless there are no complications such as the differing opinions among foreign aircraft manufacturers over the off-set clause.
Under the off-set policy, which will be put to its first test for the MRCA tender, manufacturers must ensure that 30 per cent of the value of contract originates from India in some form. American aircraft makers feel the definition of the off-set clause in the new Defence Procurement procedure is too rigid.
Cannot be circumvented
The off-set policy apart, the present policy lays down procedures that cannot be circumvented. An effort has been made to compress the time frame by asking companies to submit the technical and commercial bids together. But the time gained by this move would be neutralised by a technical oversight committee that would vet the technical parameters. As this would be one the largest orders for combat aircraft in the world and is sure to be contested fiercely, such a committee is necessary.
All this would mean that IAF would have less number of combat aircraft than it would ideally like to have in its inventory.
well MRCA again getting delayed i think by some more years.
btw any other country operate the hawk as a combat aircraft?
can it carry any russki/french aams?
and….what type of radar does it have?
RayRholy ………
what is that?
some secret weapons for the block 52?? :p
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