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RayR

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February 1, 2012 at 4:22 pm in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2349744

RayR
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It may be worse in some ways and better in some ways but “a superb aircraft with far better capabilities than Rafale” it is not. In any case it’s irrelevant whether it’s got better or worse capabilities than Rafale – the test to choose the winner was L1.

Thats understandable ..but I am slightly worried about the “encourage” part , what sort of behind the scenes activity is going on in the MoD and political circles now.

February 1, 2012 at 4:09 pm in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2349821

RayR
Participant

And the Germans…

German govt regrets India decision against Eurofighter
Wed, Feb 01 08:47 AM EST
BERLIN, Feb 1 (Reuters) – The German government regrets India’s decision to pick France’s Dassault Aviation over Eurofighter as the preferred bidder for a war plane contract, a spokesman said on Wednesday, adding, however, that no deal had yet been signed.

“The German government notes the preliminary decision made by the Indian government,” German government spokesman Steffen Seibert said at a regular news conference.

“The German government regrets that the offer made by the Eurofighter consortium has, for now, not been accepted,” he added.

Asked why he used the term “for now”, he said experience showed that pursuing exclusive talks was no guarantee of a sale and contracts sometimes ended up going to a different bidder.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSB4E8CG00L20120201?irpc=932

February 1, 2012 at 4:06 pm in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2349824

RayR
Participant

Some reaction from David Cameron..

LONDON: British Prime Minister David Cameron said on Wednesday that India’s decision to choose France’s Dassault Aviation over Eurofighter as preferred bidder for a $15 billion war plane contract was disappointing and he would urge India to reconsider.

“Of course I will do everything I can, as I have already, to encourage the Indians to look at Typhoon (Eurofighter) because I think it is such a good aircraft,” Cameron told parliament.

“The decision is obviously disappointing but it is about who the Indians have assessed as making the lowest bid and therefore asked to enter into further negotiations. They have not yet awarded the contract,” he added.

He said he did not expect any job losses in Britain as a result of the decision and said “it doesn’t rule out Typhoon for India.”

“We must go on making the case. This (Eurofighter) is a superb aircraft with far better capabilities than Rafale and we will try and encourage the Indians to take that view,” he added.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/Will-urge-India-to-reconsider-Dassault-Rafale-fighter-deal-British-Prime-Minister-David-Cameron/articleshow/11715539.cms

February 1, 2012 at 3:49 pm in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2349826

RayR
Participant

Kind of. But really, Dassault is outsourcing production and transferring technology to India. On the front end, that’s great money for Dassault, and no doubt some work for Dassault engineers. But over time, it’s not really much of a job creator for France.

I dont really buy this argument here.So the aircraft are to be made in India. And Dassault recieves the royalty for it.The French govt recieves tax from Dassault Co. Secondly the money Dassault recieves helps it to maintain jobs , invest in new projects for which again people get gainful employment .The aircraft may be manufactured in France but the ancillaries, weapons are manufactured by companies in France like MBDA , Sagem etc which again generate jobs for the people.

It might not be as good as all 126 birds manufactured inhouse , but the kind of money Dassault is making is quite something.

Btw..this ToT we have to see how deep it goes.Maybe some of the components will be made in India , for critical ones, they will still be made in France and shipped over for assembly.

February 1, 2012 at 1:39 pm in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2350006

RayR
Participant

They are French after all :p [Sorry could’nt resist]

I see Rii has made several good points.
This can only be a good news for the French public , as ultimately the money is coming to France’s coffers from another country.This deal might enable the Rafale to bag other deals where all the aircraft will be manufactured in home country.Plus IAF is going to operate these birds for a long time now and that will require some sort of continued support from France which will keep alive some jobs as well as bring in some money over an extended period.
Plus there are the weapons which India will need to buy from time to time..and that probability increases if we are in a war again which is very much possible.

So as I see it its a win win scenario.

February 1, 2012 at 10:12 am in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2350249

RayR
Participant

Fan images:

Another :

February 1, 2012 at 2:50 am in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2350656

RayR
Participant

I think its safe to say that the IAF will be operating the Rafales and Rafale-UPGs for a long time now and will be the last country to retire them.

February 1, 2012 at 2:41 am in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2350707

RayR
Participant

here you go, a picture of the colour grey

[im[/img]

Excellent 😀 I had no idea Rafale was so low viz its practically invisible to the naked eye! This must have played a huge part in Rafale winning:p

February 1, 2012 at 2:34 am in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2350720

RayR
Participant

Indian Rafale

Its all going to be Tipnis Grey not any other colour..so do you have some picture like that?

February 1, 2012 at 2:30 am in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2350724

RayR
Participant

Yes I agree and this is what I was saying .
Now , India is not going to buy American planes anymore . I bet a barrel of old Jack Daniel ‘s No 7 on it . 😎
The Typhoon is also out because they don ‘t need a “second best” to their 126 Rafales . The Gripen scored too low and Indians like twin engines fighters with good range . The Mig-35 is a possibility because it is Russian but it is NOT a Sukhoi (read my lips) .
Then , India is also looking at building a strong blue sea Navy and the Rafale M immediatly comes to mind if you ‘re Indian for many reasons I don ‘t need to talk about , we all know . But just in case :
– home made on the same line (or almost)
– ease of maintenance
– ease of training
I could also say cheaper upgrades in the long run because of the numbers involved .
126 + 80 + 60 (2 Navy Wings) = 266

All home made as F3 standard 😎
Money wise and with the work hour cost in India , beat that !
All they need is to order a Carrier from France and they are up and running by 2020-2025 .

Cheers .

Well I think the Jack Daniels will be mine as we will see more US birdies in IAF service..or may be the navy even.

And you are wrong on two accounts there..

There will be NO mig 35s or indeed Gripens …The IAF likes to order aircraft in batches.You can see this for almost every aircraft the IAF has ordered so the 80 are going to be Rafales. There is only a 5% chance that they might be F 35s though.But NOT any oher aircraft.

And number two , about the Rafale M for the navy..well its an interesting thought ..and just that. Manufacturing Rafale for the IAF would no doubt make rafale M an attractive choice for the navy but believe me Indian bureaucracy is not efficient at all to see or grasp that advantage.IAF and IN and MoD with their own bureaucracy and agendas will go their own separate ways and we will end up with multiple redundant fighter types for the IAF , IN etc.
Though I wish that I am proved wrong.

February 1, 2012 at 2:20 am in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2350757

RayR
Participant

Now now! Both aircraft met the technical needs of the competition and Typhoon was found to be better in certain technical areas whilst the Rafale in others. Don’t try and spin it otherwise the contest WAS VERY CLEAR on this…the final part of the contest was cost based only!

Well its true that the Rafale and the Typhoon both cleared the technical and tactical evals and the final selection was based on cost only. But reports suggest that the IAF preferred the Rafale more , which means that the Rafale clearly was the topper in the IAF evaluations.

January 31, 2012 at 4:56 pm in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2351824

RayR
Participant

there was just to much speaking for the Rafale in this competition anyway. So the result isn’t that surprising for me.

What do you mean?

January 31, 2012 at 4:21 pm in reply to: MMRCA news XI #2351930

RayR
Participant

No more can jacka** wise guys say, “oh look the Rafale – if it is soo good why not even a single export order?”. There it is – now it has the mother of all export orders.

Do you mean jacko***** :diablo:

* Just for fun..no offence intended

January 31, 2012 at 4:14 pm in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2351973

RayR
Participant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2zdNzmBanQ&feature=player_embedded&fmt=18

Former ACM Fali Homi Major sounds like a very happy man 🙂

Yep! He is happy for 2 reasons..
1. The soap has come to an end and that IAF would atlast have these much needed birds..
2.Rafale has been selected.

January 31, 2012 at 3:32 pm in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2352105

RayR
Participant

One question to everyone : Do you think the Typhoon would have won today if the Eurofighter Consortium had offered a better/lower price than the Rafale International ?

That would have made Typhoon L1 so they would have won.

I , though , wonder that , as some reports suggest IAF preferred the Rafale over the Typhoon..what would be the possible reasons for that?
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