RayRhow many bets they’ll come up with something like this?
😀
Whats that Stavatti?
RayRBuying F-35 has a huge potential for killing off the indigenous stealth deal….from US’s perspective of course..:(
RayRUS’ F-35 bait is too tempting for India to resist(says who?:confused: )
23 Jul, 2007, 0311 hrs IST, TNNNEW DELHI: In a clear sign of the growing defence cooperation between India and the US, Washington has indicated its willingness to transfer high- technology weaponry to India. Reports said the US could agree to technology transfer of the fifth generation joint strike fighter F-35.
Lockheed Martin’s vice-president for Business Development Rob Weiss told agencies after the meeting with Indian officials that they had indicated that the F-35 was ready to be in the reckoning for India’s fighter needs beyond the induction of the 126 Multi-role Combat Aircraft.
Although Pentagon has offered New Delhi participation in its missile shield, top-of-the-shelf 4th generation F-16 and F-18/A fighters, weapon-locating radars and its new brand of long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft, the F-35 was kept out of discussions.
Reports said a top-level team from Lockheed Martin met the Indian Air Force brass to convey that the F-35 Lightning-II — single-seat, single-engine, stealth-capable military strike fighter — was available for IAF’s fifth generation fighter requirements. The offer brings some relief to India, which has been seeking partners to develop futuristic fifth-generation fighters. India has been in discussions with the MiG Corp for some time on India’s fifth-generation fighter requirements. Pranab Mukherjee had held several rounds of discussions with Russia on the issue.
The IAF, which is not inclined on the Sukhoi-led T-50 programme, is of the view that a low-cost fifth-generation fighter should be deployed for meeting the challenges in its neighbourhood. New Delhi has been in negotiations with Moscow for joint development and investment in next-generation fighters.
Mr Weiss told a news agency that India was considering the offer. “We briefed top IAF officials about the new fighters,” he said. With embedded antennas, aligned edges, internal weapons and fuel and special coatings and material, the F-35 fighter uses stealth to pick and choose engagements while roaming undetected by enemy defence systems.
Mr Weiss said the F-35 fighters boast of the most powerful sensor suite ever to be fitted on a fighter plane which will enable it to bring a seamless real-world and real-time 360-degree display of the battle space to turn the pilots into “tacticians rather than technicians”. Lockheed Martin officials said if new countries joined the F-35 programme, the US could be open to delivery of new generation fighters within the next decade.
He said if the IAF chose Lockheed Martin’s world’s best-selling fighter F-16 fighting falcons, it could “position India to be ready to receive advanced technologies incorporated in the F-35s”. Lockheed Martin officials said a lot of the new technologies being tested on the F-35 would be leveraged in the new generation F-16 Block 50 fighters.
RayRGuys this is the July-August 2006 thread…
To avoid confusion while searching for articles later please post here
RayR“Since they have been at it for more than 20 years, we have a great deal to learn from their experience,” echoes Squadron Leader Achin Pillai, an MFC. “The RAF controllers have been very forthcoming in sharing their experience and we are coping very well too,” he further added on the quick assimilation, adaptation and professional acumen of the IAF FCs, a fact acknowledged by the RAF FCs too.
Seems like a perfectly balanced body of writing to me. Why? Whats wrong with it?
Lets see..coming from an Indian source,the bolded part..dont you think its “bragging” by the IAF?:eek:
:p
RayRThe point of contention is this:
“While the RAF fielded some of their most-experienced and highly-qualified pilots, some of them being very senior performance evaluators in active service, the IAF pilots were a mix of ‘young to middle-level pilots’ from the ‘Rhinos’ squadron.”
Inference: Unfair fight – RAF Top Guns vs IAF Tyros.
Ahh..it seems that the virtues of seeing everything in context doesnt occupy a very high position in your list of priorities..
It seems to me that isnt the correct inference and that your premise is wrong.
No.25 Squadron is a routine Tornado F3 squadron, with the usual proportion of experienced and inexperienced pilots and navigators.
Though it became the first RAF front line squadron equipped with the Eurofighter Typhoon on 31 March 2006. No.3 Squadron, RAF, is still not yet operational in the ADX role, and includes first tourists, pilots who are new to a radar-equipped fighter, and pilots who are new to the A-A role.
Okay lets not rehash the same thing again and again..just provide the specific information of who did what and prove it.
The basic Su-30 has been in IAF service since 1997, and 30 Sqn were raised in 2004, so have had some time to get ‘up to speed’ on the jet.
What does that mean..that all those Flt Lts flying the Su30 are more experienced than the Wng Cdrs flying the EF?
RayR1. First day
2. 1 vs 1’s – ie gun combat, read the rest for confirmation (on page 1)
3. Makes sense why the IAF would let its young un’s do the job
Right on the money.
4. Wheres the bragging or implied insult to the RAF?
See the bolded part on the PIB report I posted..wait till somebody construes that too as bragging and make an issue out of it…;) 😀
RayRWas this posted?
CONTROLLING AERIAL COMBATS – AN UNSEEN SAGA
16:35 IST
Even as the Su-30 MKIs, F3 Tornadoes and Eurofighter Typhoons of the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the Royal Air Force (RAF), battle it out in the sky during – Indradhanush 2007, elsewhere discreetly and unseen at the ‘Control and Reporting Centre’ (CRC) of RAF Scampton, a team of ‘fighter controllers’ (FC) from both Air Forces remain closeted and deeply engrossed on computer screens, albeit keeping a close watch on the proceedings.Of a marked significance during the exercise is the role of FCs accompanying the IAF contingent. In an airspace that is normally bereft of any liberties, fighter pilots invariably depend on them for manouevring tactically when engaging enemy targets in the air. “It is a team work,” informs Wing Commander Jaswinder Singh, a Master Fighter Controller (MFC) on the IAF side. FCs undertake the crucial job of airspace management by coordinating and controlling the conduct of missions while providing regular updates on target information.
IAF FCs hone their ‘controlling skills’ while their winged colleagues manouevre in all the dimensions in air. Their exposure to the Airborne Warning and Control (AWAC) systems is expected to go a long way since the IAF, with its modernization plans of inducting new radars, aerostats and AWACs in place, is all set to enhance further its existing surveillance and control capabilities. Some of the MFCs had some prior exposure to the scenario during the last Indradhanush exercise held in India. They keenly observed the E3D Sentry’s controlling prowess from the air during the current exercise also.
“Since they have been at it for more than 20 years, we have a great deal to learn from their experience,” echoes Squadron Leader Achin Pillai, an MFC. “The RAF controllers have been very forthcoming in sharing their experience and we are coping very well too,” he further added on the quick assimilation, adaptation and professional acumen of the IAF FCs, a fact acknowledged by the RAF FCs too.
The missions being undertaken in the current exercise mostly conform to the NATO/RAF methods of operations. The missions are vastly diverse and include the conventional 1vs1 to large force engagements, involving several aircraft of different types. This increases the challenge for the FCs and requires skills extraordinaire. And significantly, they also enhance flight safety.
TKS/-
RayRThe only good thing about the whole thing being delayed is that the IAF would be getting a fully developed a/c like one with an AESA..otherwise I was thinking that if it went for the Rafale/Typhoon earlier,it would still be operating under-developed equipment..like what happened to the M2Ks…we operate it with RDMs while the rest of the world flies with RDYs.
Ok thats what I could get out after thinking for some time..:D
The MoD is a bad,malfunctioning piece of junk and need to be sorted out.I frankly dont see it happeneing anytime soon if at all.:mad:
RayRI’m not talking about the Il-78 aircrew.
The 20 Su-30 aircrew included “Wing Commander A K Bharti, the Commanding Officer of No.30 Sqn. and his Flight Commanders, Wing Commanders Asit and Assudani” as well as one Wg Cdr A C Chopra.
Wg.Cdr Chopra is the deputy leader of the “contingent” not the Rhinos.I will tell you.The Rhinos apart from the CO had 4 other Wg Cdrs among the 20 personnel.Very few Sqn Ldrs the majority Flt Lt.s.The Wg Cdrs and the Sqn Ldrs would have been riding as the wizzos with rest being done by the Flt. Lt.s.Also the IAF Sqns have more a/c (16) as opposed to RAF(12) except for the F3s…so there is bound to be more no. of officers.
The composition of No.25 Squadron was typical of any Tornado F.Mk 3 squadron, while the breakdown of No.3 Squadron’s Typhoon pilots is exactly as described
Any source pointing out this specific info would definitely clear up the matter.
While the RAF fielded some of their most-experienced and highly-qualified pilots, some of them being very senior performance evaluators in active service, the IAF pilots were a mix of ‘young to middle-level pilots’ from the ‘Rhinos’ squadron.
Looking at this statement again,from the Indian MoD,I dont think they are talking about the RAF pilots only.
RayRThe point isn’t that the Rhinos are led by a Wing Commander – that’s entirely to be expected – it’s that they have so many! And no UK observer would expect that.
An RAF Eurofighter squadron has one Wing Commander, a couple of squadron leaders (up to four) and eight or nine more junior blokes.
The Rhinos have four Wing Commanders alone – and a large number of Squadron leaders. They are a very top-heavy, very experienced bunch of operators.
It’s interesting, but probably not worthy of comment until the Indian side claims that:
“the RAF fielded some of their most-experienced and highly-qualified pilots, some of them being very senior performance evaluators in active service, the IAF pilots were a mix of ‘young to middle-level pilots’ from the ‘Rhinos’ squadron.”
Which is an inversion of the truth.
It doesnt matter what ordinarily happens and what ranks a squadron of IAF/RAF is generally made up of.These are special circumstances.Now if you say that you have specific information that the RAF contingent at the exercises had the personnel mix like you pointed out generally happens,only then I believe you.
Also some the senior officers are leading the transport and the MARS.
RayRBy contrast, the Rhinos’ CO, XO and Flight Commanders are all Wing Commanders (a rank achieved on time in the IAF) and the Indian det also included a high proportion of very senior blokes.
What does that mean?You surely donot think that a FltLt or a Flying Offcr. will be the CO of a squadron do you?In peace time,WingCO is the lowest rank in the IAF needed to comandeer a squadron.
And what do you mean by “very senior blokes”?
Making an issue out of nothing.Typical.:rolleyes:
RayRBut it did not have the option of buying american aircraft and it still does not operate a single american type.
Technically incorrect.:D
It operates 4 Boeing 737s in the Air HQ and Comunications Flight.
During the cold war the IAF operated American planes.. trainers(T6G/Texan-withdrawn in 1973) and transports..(C-47s,Lockheed Super constellation),Bell 47G and Sikorsky S55 helos…though most of them were acquired before the freeze in the relations.
RayROriginally posted by Sumeet @ BR
RayRThe only way we are gonna get some info(the type in which we are interested:diablo: ) are through unofficial channels.Before they went I heard some IAF people were expecting things to be mighty close this time around.
Btw…whats the max(approx) distance Typhoon can positively ID another aircraft?
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