Blue Max,

As the current ‘Thread Killer’, I am possibly the last person you wish to hear from.

Unfortunately, ‘need to know’ is in reality only required for items subject to the ‘Official Secrets Act’. I should know I first signed it nearly 50 years ago.
Too many people are so sensitive to anything they believe is not in keeping of their perception of what should or should not be devolved.

The OP asked a highly relevant question on a forum that is renowned for its experts with intimate knowledge.

Unfortunately your reply, for whatever reason, seemed to be at odds with what this forum usually delivers.

IMHO it may be time to take a deep breath, and return with your normally erudite knowledge to assist us all.

Bob

As one of my elf & safety tutors so succinctly put:

“One man in a hi-viz is somebody, everyone in a hi-viz he is nobody.”

Partial thread drift. Probably not your basic spotters info! BUT! 1973-75, 60 MU RAF Leconfield (Lightnings, Jaguars, Phantoms, Whirlwind helicopters)(No1 Air Eng Sqn) also carried out little known or publicised Chipmunk Reconditioning. A varied amount of teams, fabric workers, painters & dopers and metal bashers assisted the teams in producing these aircraft to be surface finished by an assorted skills level of civilians at Kemble. I had a hit board (care of SA?) of Teams, aircraft and time on the ground. I believe the list is complete, but I am sure you know better
.
I was a mere Cpl rigger at that time but ably directed by our governor; Flt Sgt John Butterworth assisted by Chf Tech Ricky Warrington and Sgt Paddy ?(Mr high blood pressure?) Hole in thumb could be projected across the hangar floor at a great rate of knots. God bless you sir for keeping me reasonably sane!

Team AC Days Team AC Days

2 WB567 59 6 WK642 54
1 WB652 49 1 WK925 54
4 WB693 52 5 WP627 47
6 WD373 51 6 WP833 41
3 WG308 61 5 WP840 50
4 WG321 51 4 WP850 43
4 WG403 55 1 WP860 52
5 WG430 49 3 WP872 52
4 WG466 45 4 WP896 49
1 WK511 48 3 WP900 50
3 WK515 46 1 WP901 57
2 WK518 53 5 WP906 49
4 WK554 47 1 WP928 53
4 WK559 49 3 WP929 50
3 WK562 54 6 WP967 47
4 WK572 49 3 WP974 54
2 WK585 51 1 WP979 42
6 WK586 48 4 WP984 43
5 WK609 56 3 WZ845 46
1 WK613 56 5 WZ875 58
1 WK624 48 1 WZ878 45
4 WK633 51 1 WZ884 50
3 WK640 44

Until the better informed come along, as far as I can ascertain; Air Ministry Order (AMO) 513/41 dated 10.7.41 specified prototypes to have yellow undersides.

From 1942 (AMO 664/42 dated 2.7.42) specified yellow undersides and the letter ‘P’ in yellow encircled by a yellow ½” ring of equal diameter to fuselage roundel. Air Publication 2656A Vol 1, Sect 6, Chap 2 (October 1944) goes into more detail of the dimensions of the markings.

Currently I have yet to find the AMO that rescinds these markings.

My Grandfather was lucky? to survive the horrors of Gallipoli, went on to Egypt, Palestine, MGC, France, eventually being put back in Civvy Street in 1919. He passed away when I was 10.

Unfortunately his marriage did not survive. My Mother forever despaired at this breakup only to lose her younger brother in WWII (Channel Dash 12 Feb 1942 – 49 Sqn Hampden).

She died (1990) still grieving them both and her other two brothers who survived WWII. 25 Years later we still grieve them all.

Bob

From what we see of the modern police force (as opposed to Lincoln 7 and my own memories( naughty boy smack round the ear, never do that again)), we have entered the frightening world of unfit, stazi dressed individuals who do not command respect. When the respect of police officers and law and order die, chaos ensues.

Let’s chase celebrities or newspaper reporters at dawn with 50 troops (oh no, got that wrong; 12 persons good and true saw through that one). Return Police to their smart, user/public friendly uniform and stop every erk on the street from issuing penalty notices. (No doggy poop bags have a £100 fine). This country has really has denigrated into an officious, self-serving, set of nobodies ruling the chattering classes.

No wonder, when today I followed a driver up a very busy & dangerous main road on a mobile phone, who was braking, accelerating and hesitating at roundabouts, when I sounded my horn all I got was the finger. That is the current respect for the law. Oh sorry, there is no one to enforce the law any more. This video just reinforces that view.

Beware, anarchy is just round the corner.

Rant over

Is it just me, or am I correct in thinking people are so concerned about someone else’s perceived sensitivities, we are killing objective debate. As Moggy C has inferred, we can and should learn from our own experiences. Kill that debate and you kill that vital learning phase. If you do not remember the past you will definitely repeat its errors some times and more often fatally.

In my opinion debate is being pushed on the back burner and if you do not agree with the common or PC thread then it appears you should not have a voice at all. This is dangerous territory and often leads to chaos. As long as the voice does not imply vindictiveness etc. and is cited as one’s own opinion, why should we question their right to express that opinion?

I am an ex- aircraft engineer of nearly 40 yrs and I do not want to desecrate anyone’s passing. I have lost too many good friends, acquaintances to aircraft accidents. Elgar’s Nimrod variation holds a very significant part of my awareness.

I rest my case. Please discuss.

Bob