Stick to the point. The British website did show two possible reasons for that loss it learned about from others. The main purpose of that site is to list all losses they heard about. Nothing more and nothing less.
There was no MiG-23MS delivered before June 1974. I don’t know, where the young people from that websites may got their infos from. They id use for all to see Western sources mainly and do not quote a single source really. Till 1989 behind the Iron curtain none of them had any chance to learn from that times by open sources or people related to that.

They do quote sources however to give you some support to your claims a russian source do actually say it was a MiG-21
http://www.skywar.ru/Hermon74.html
However see most russian sources claim al masry shot it down with a MiG-23MS, they quote him and say how it did happen while this webpage does say the name of the Syrian Pilot was Mohammed Mansour.

So from the point of view of most webpages Al Masry killed the F-4E and another F-4, and at least present how it did happen.

Also the MiG-23MS was inducted into production in 1973 and most russian sources say most ME air forces had MiG-23MS in 1974

Lonevolk,
Do some research on Diego Zampini. The source of the loss of Tornado GR1, serial ZA467, comes from Zampini as does the other claims in his participation with Aviacija i Vremja magazine. Zampini is a fantasist in the same league as Venik.

Zampini is still a believer that HMS Invicible was hit by an Exocet and bombed by A-4s in 1982.

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/Exocet.html

Zampini is a gullible and naive individual. This was proved during Allied Force in 1999 when he was fed info from Venik and Serb teenagers Mladen Stekovic and Djordje Pavicevic.

A snippet from his original article highlighting the air-to-air claims of the Yugoslav Air Force during 1999.

“Note: This article, like all ones devoted to the Yugoslav side of the
Kosovo’s war, had been created with the valuable information provided by my
Yugoslav friends, Mladen Stekovic and Djorje Pavicevic. I devoted this peace
of work to them, to Venik …….. – Diego Zampini.”

Take a look at the following article by Zampini ‘Knights of King Lazar’

http://artofwar.ru/z/zampini_d_f/text_0580.shtml

For those wanting a laugh it can be translated into English via Google from the URL.

Not a single Yugoslav pilot made any air-to-air claims during 1999. Yet Zampini supports some truely ridiculous claims.

“During the following night the 127th IE managed to take a partial revenge for the losses incurred before. March 25 at 23:30 on Rumoy Serbian pilot Slobodan Peric (Major, piloted MiG-29) caught by surprise – he says – a group of fighters “F/A-18” and, using R-73, caused damage to one enemy aircraft . A few hours later, it became known that the airport Raylovach (Sarajevo) carried out an emergency landing one of the F-15C (USAF). Photographs taken by a local Serb population, visible band of dense white smoke, which had dragged on for air (later the picture was published in Serbian newspaper “Troops”). NATO spokesman (Shen Thompson) commented on the situation at a press conference: “<…> I would like to confirm that this morning, landed at Sarajevo airport, two planes F -15. One of them carried out an emergency landing, the other was to maintain. “

“Evening on March 26 127th IE participated in two air battles, the first of which occurred spontaneously at 17:00 in the seven kilometers south of Pancevo. At this time, Colonel-General Ljubisa Velikovich (no one else, as assistant commander of the General Staff of the Yugoslav Air Force and Air Defense Forces) carried out a test flight, piloting the MiG-29B (N18105). The General wanted to see for myself in a poor state aircraft squadron. Suddenly, he was warned that a group of F-16 (USAF), accompanied by several aircraft “Tornado” (the Luftwaffe), staged an attack on the air defense system in the vicinity of Belgrade. Using unnoticed Velikovich approached the F-16C (N88-0490), piloted by Captain Michael J. Ryder, and, after several attempts to get to work the system of an SN-29’s own plane, shot down an American missile R-73. (Ryder, ejected and was evacuated). U.S. military claimed that the loss of the aircraft occurred during the incident in Arizona, but the GRU reiterate that this fighter was actually shot down in Yugoslavia. Velikovich was not destined to survive this war: the general was killed June 3 during an air attack.”

F-16 88-0490 wasn’t even deployed to Europe, but still Zampini believes in fantastic cover up tales.

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/BASES_USAF/LUKE/luke_afb.htm

“21 May 1999 MiG-29B destroyed by fire from a cannon (GSh-301) UAV “Hunter” (NAV211, the U.S. Armed Forces), ten days later the same fate befell the German UAV CL-289″

“Despite the fact that the 127th was able to destroy the IE “only” six enemy aircraft (three F-16, two F-15 and one F-117) and two UAVs, provided it incurred losses”

To Zampini everything is a cover up. Even though not a single Yugoslav pilot made any air-to-air kill claim he attributes three F-16s, two F-15s, one F-117 and two UAVs all to Yugoslav MiG-29s of the 127th.

Lonevolk,
Do you still trust the info from Zampini on the link that you posted?

TJ

Zampini is not the only one who says that many webapges from argentina say that too, so he s not the only one

I wonder if the slaughter of these pilots returned to their country Falklands. But I know something else, perhaps more importantly … that when, hereafter, imagine the Argentine and not think about the typical gaucho, the tango singer waxed or magazine president. Think of those pilots that have managed to die to know why they lived today privilege available to very few.

It is commonplace to say that Argentina has been blessed by all the gifts of heaven and earth, but above all, now we see it, their children who became aviators.

During the Falklands War, the world witnessed the most daring air operations were carried out against a fleet after the Second World War to date. In combination Argentina Air Force and the Navy Naval Air Squadrons sunk, or taken out of combat to 22 British ships (see list). But there was an action that stood out among the others, Operation Invincible, carried out to hunt down the flagship of the British fleet: the aircraft carrier HMS Invincible.

Operation Invincible

On 29 May 1982, the 2nd Squadron Naval Air Attack Game and was ordered to prepare a mission to attack a target that was located 80 miles east of Falkland, in exactly the 090 ° radial. It was thought that there was the “Invincible”.

After the sinking of the “Atlantic Conveyor” was only one AM-39 Exocet. The opportunity, this time to the couple formed by Lieutenant Commander Alexander Francisco and Lieutenant Louis Collavino.

A commitment not allowed to operationalize the British aircraft carrier away beyond the 100 miles from the combat zones, because the range of the Harrier (including the maneuvers in the air) did not exceed that distance. They need planes that take off, fly to the target, were in the air for a while and return them was essential to have “presence in the air.”

During the morning of the 29th and Collavino Francisco, with help from the rest of the squadron were used to finalize some details of the mission. First, we determined the schedule, noting that until then had operated the Super Etendard always late in the afternoon, for one hours it would look unusual, preferably in the morning or no later than noon.

Secondly, and in order to make a bow and hit the target for the East, something quite improbable from all logic, they should be dual in-flight refueling. If the second opportunity arose setbacks, the aircraft could return to their base, but not accomplish the mission. It would not be the first time that problems arise in the replenishment maneuver, there are many variables that make the method is not always safe. Furthermore, the mission required the aircraft tanks moved far to the east, with all the risks involved. To avoid detection of Hercules by a picket enemy and that this raised the alarm before the evidence of a resupply mission for the Southeast, the tanks were requested not to carry out a direct route from Rio Gallegos to the point of meeting with the Super Etendard, but will stick to the mainland and then follow a route almost identical to that of the attacking planes.

At noon all was ready. Upon receipt of the confirmation of when the meetings with the Hercules take off.

In the pre-flight room Collavino Francisco and awaited the moment of departure. But for reasons of time, the mission was called off because it was a very complex attack, which involved very detailed coordination that had to dedicate her time. They’d have to reconcile flight profiles of different aircraft, and also have another aircraft refueling tank twice.

From that moment, the pilots began to adjust a number of details, whereas the flight, which would join the four fighter A-4C “Skyhawk” Air Force would be done the next day.

During a meeting that had been done during the morning of 29 in San Julian, the Squadron Commander of the A-4C of the Air Force met in his office, all heads of squads, to let them know of the existence of the mission against the British aircraft carrier.

The four aircraft after the launch of Exocet by one of the Super Etendard, continue to pass on the target and bomb it, trying to penetrate the defensive barrier that ships are always protecting the carriers. A barrier that is generally very difficult to cross. Therefore, their risk was very high, more so that the attack would have to do it in open water, where the detection capability of the enemy was complete and advance to the weapons systems enough time to react efficiently .

When Commander finished his presentation, gave a brief silence, slowly, unable to hide the emotion itself by the time he was living, he asked those who wished to voluntarily take part in the attack.

Another silence enveloped the crowd.
– Sir, request permission to participate.

First Lieutenant Ernesto Rubén Ureta had risen.

Almost simultaneously rose First Lieutenant Jose Vazquez
– Lord I want to go.
– Well – the Commandant – You nominate the other two drivers.

So they did. Among the other officers of the squadron, was elected First Lieutenant Omar Jesus Castillo and Gerardo Guillermo Isaac Ensign.

On Sunday 30 dawned as usual in Rio Grande: cloudy, very cold, with frost everywhere.

The pre-flight room, very early, intense activity recorded. Francisco, Collavino and virtually all other members of the squadron, met with Air Force pilots would participate in the mission. Together, they made the final coordination, asserting the importance of discretion and arranging the flight profile of the A-4C of the Super Etendard.

– What will you do if one of its planes back by failures? – I ask Francisco Vazquez, who was the leader of the squadron of the Air Force.
– In that case continue to the other three.

Francisco asked again
– What if a second plane has to return?
– Continue to the other two. Only cancel the mission, for our part, of course, if they miss three machines. Going with a single plane makes no sense.

For a moment all were silent. If for the Super Etendard that attack, by their nature was very risky, but it was for the pilots of the A-4C that although volunteers were not unaware of the tremendous risk they were running. The orders they had was to attack the target on which impact the Exocet, whatever, it was assumed that the ship would be more helpless than another that was intact. It was the only way to increase the chances of sinking the “Invincible”, where the missile on the aircraft carrier stick.

Around 12:30 pm Francisco received permission from the control tower of the Rio Grande. A little further back and to his right, waiting for their leader Collavino took off first to do it seconds later.

Francisco accelerated to eighty percent of the power of the turbine, released the brakes and the Super Etendard, with the last Exocet AM-39 available, began its takeoff roll.

Approximately five minutes later, one after another was taking off the A-4C. As the Super Etendard, amounted to 12,000 feet and headed southeast.

After flying for fifty minutes with a more than acceptable weather, the Super Etendard reached the point where the two were waiting Hercules. Smoothly completed the refueling and allowed the A-4C do the same.

The novelty of this mission was, perhaps, how to replenish: to increase the radius of action was decided that the six planes to fly the aircraft tanks together, taking turns to suck fuel for almost 300 km. The maneuver was performed perfectly. Everything went as planned.

From there the planes they headed east, to reach the site from further away and making a second replenishment.

Burden “full”, the aircraft was well off the Hercules and took the attack formation, the two Super Etendard forward one miles apart from each other, behind each Super Etendard, two Skyhawk.

They began to meet the descent profile. Were completing the detour of the British ships, which at that time was on his left, and soon was flying low over a rough sea, whose waves were splashing the windshield and small mancas salt in them.

The requirements of radio silence and strict discipline were met.
Francisco looked at his letter, which was bent at the knee right: according to calculations and information from the aircraft carrier was less than 300 km. away.

Meanwhile, scattered showers were moments of such intensity that could even appear on the radar screen.

And it did. When the two Super Etendard amounted to issue the radar echoes were many scattered. He immediately got out and continued the fly-by.

A mile later they climbed again and issued. Collavino approached her gaze to the screen, to better distinguish: an eco had apparently true. At that moment he heard in his voice headset Francisco:

– I got it, I got hooked!

Collavino also detected the same echo and exclaimed excitedly:

– I have also hooked!

– Twenty miles to the front! In the bow!

Missile Launcher! – Francis said, and pressed the shutter button.

The plane shook Francisco.

Collavino and Skyhawk pilots watched as the missile was suggested by the Super Etendard, fell two or three meters and it seemed he would crash into the water, turned on his engine and began to fly, and stabilized, level with the water, leaving a trail of white smoke product of the combustion gases.

Again, the missile had been launched in an excellent position and a distance shot that ensured the impact on a perfectly white highlighted by the systems of the Super Etendard.

Immediately, the two naval aircraft veered to the left and left to return to base.

Released some 24 nautical miles of white, Exocet would take about 109 seconds to reach the target, while that instance to the mean-4c to 153 seconds but without the initial surprise, that is facing anti-aircraft ships.

The four aircraft from the FAA had followed the trail of the Exocet, en route to the target, but as the missile developed much faster, soon lost sight of, although visibility was good and amounted to little more than 15 km.
Vazquez was the squadron leader, motioned to close their numerals for training.

The aircraft configured with three 250 kg bombs. each, were rapidly approaching the target, in flight ground: just 12 mts. separated from the water.

Suddenly in the distance appeared a dark spot, blurred by the haze effect. There was no doubt there was, inexplicably alone, without other vessels nearby. It was time to come face to face with one of the most sought after ships of the Task Force.

Gradually, the unmistakable figure of the aircraft carrier was becoming clearer, sharper: the cover slightly curved upward in the area of the bow, the “island” (group of buildings located on the deck of aircraft carriers and moved into a side of it) shifted to the starboard side. The boat sailed very slowly. Something stands out: from the base of the “island” came a dense column of smoke was increasing in size. He quickly realized that was the indisputable proof that the Exocet was shocked. The black smoke was rising from the center of the superstructure and below the runway, as if the Exocet had made an impact between the waterline and the deck. Not observed fire. There were no flames but smoke emerged bubbling black-topped island-forward and backward through the 2 bowls of white radomes fore and aft.

When the pilots arrived about 12 km. white, put maximum power in their engines and prepared for final approach. A flying left and Castillo Vázquez, and right, Ureta and Isaac.

At that time, no one saw a missile coming, hit Vazquez’s plane, which exploded, 8 kms. the target.

Trying to master the anxiety and the impression he had caused the unexpected death of its leader, the three drivers continued their flight.

The target was about two kilometers. I almost was going to “jump” to download a new pump when the explosion struck, was the plane exploded and Castillo also practically disintegrated in the air. The machines Ureta and Isaac shook because of the blast.

Missiles and AAA fired from a ship from the west, hit the two planes flying to the left of training.

Ureta angrily pulled the trigger of their guns and pick up his plane, releasing the cargo and carriers across the fore and aft at an angle of 30 ° from the axis of the ship.

For his part, Isaac also pulled their guns, throw bombs and crossed to the ship when it was covered with smoke. Ahead to avoid bringing the tower to the right and shot, ironing water, started to perform evasive maneuvers while taking the path of escape.

As he walked away, could see that the carrier had been completely hidden behind layers of black smoke.

So, they flew, separated for a few miles, good grazing and absolute radio silence.

In the distance, a little to the right, one point seemed to grow. If it was the plane that had seen Ureta and was slowing down.

– Isaac go to the nurse – she said, referring to the aircraft tank.

“Yes, sir, understood.

The words were not needed. They had managed to reach the aircraft carrier, struck him and were returning home. But they had lost two friends forever.

Approximately 70 km. the point where they were found, with the air tank, leaving the two amounted Skyhawk ground shipping.

The 2 KC-130 waiting to about 5,000 feet, in an area where, fortunately had a good time.

One of the crewmembers of the KC-130 Hercules, intrigued to know the outcome of the mission, question through gestures Isaac, who replied:

– “We did this ****!”

After loading fuel headed for Rio Grande. Nearly three hours after take-off and they still had about another hour of flight.

Ureta landed in the foreground; seconds after Isaac did. Among the drivers waiting for the arrival, were Collavino Francisco, which had just landed and that they felt the death of Vasquez and Castillo as having been lifelong companions.

Ureta and Isaac embraced, crying, comrades, fighting all the tension. Slowly they walked towards the officers of the base where separately provided a detailed report of the attack, something very important, as they had the opportunity to pass on the goal and make the throws.

According to the data that was providing, to make an analysis of the shape of the British ships, a kind of “identity kit”.

Described thus leaving the Exocet, the silhouette of the target and the exit of smoke from this, knowing that it was the impact of the missile.

Ureta said the spacecraft had crossed from the stern and into the starboard mura, saying that achieving a good shot. Accurately described the aircraft carrier, two fireplaces, their “island” great, the separation of this with respect to the central axis of the vessel, radomes-colored, flat stern. All agreed that this was “Invincible” and not “Hermes”.

The information I provide Isaac was similar to that of Ureta. Like him, when he was shown a series of silhouettes of different vessels, did not hesitate: “This is what we attack,” he said referring to “Invincible”.

The day after the mission, with radar from the Malvinas, was made the Harrier CAP control that had been done since long ago: British air activity had decreased significantly.

Damage:
An Exocet missile hit the aircraft carrier, along with three pumps of 250 kgs. each, which penetrated the ship’s deck and caused serious damage and principle of fire in the hangar area, although one did not explode.

Ships involved:
2 Super Etendard – 2nd Game and Esc Naval Air Attack (ARA) (Ala)
4 A-4C Skyhawk – IV Air Brigade (FAA) (Zonda)
2 Hercules C-130 – First Brigade Aviation (FAA) (Ranquel)

Maps of the mission:

The consequences of the attack

England never recognized that the Invincible had been attacked. In subsequent contradictory statements the British government said that the attack never took place, which did exist but was repulsed the attack (in the process knocking the Avenger to the Exocet missile with his gun) and also existed and that the attack was successful, but the target was not the Invincible.

In any case we should clarify that although the British government on the issue made a secret of 99 years, something unprecedented in the history of warfare. This means that in 2081 just going to tell the truth, meanwhile their claims are worthless.

It is highly likely that after a successful attack the Invincible has been seriously damaged, or rest today in the seabed, and his triumphant return to England has been a staging using his identical twin (or almost identical) HMS Illustrious. On what basis do we say this:

• After the attack, the Argentine radar located in the Falklands, detects a British helicopter activity, which was heading east on East Falkland. While the Invincible aircraft soar to 12,000 feet (maneuver to save fuel). Then the planes landing at San Carlos, where British troops were established on 21 May.

• That same day (30/05/82) General J. Moore, decided to move from the Invincible (where he directed all operations so far) to San Carlos, to continue commanding the troops from there.

• British air activity in early June was the rarest of the entire campaign.

• It is simply not possible to shoot down an Exocet Avenger with his cannon.

• The HMS Invincible took 4 months to enter port after the conflict, more than any other ship in the fleet, and is also the longest time that a carrier has remained untouched port. During that time he was lost sight of all.

• Wolling Bryan’s testimony, navy nurse of HMS Invincible, receiving a medal for his outstanding performance in the war, which claims to have had serious problems for the care of wounded and burned in the carrier. Wolling was dishonorably discharged from the Royal Navy. In 1999, won a lawsuit against the Royal Navy, on the stand stating the details of the care of seriously wounded by the Argentine air attack in the same Invincible.

• The aircraft carrier crew list was never revealed, looks like a ghost ship without crew for 4 months and lost.

• The Invincible was the only ship of the fleet to which the media were not allowed access after the war.

• The aircraft carrier entered a British port to 4 months after the end of the war under the name HMS Invincible was very different to the left for the war. This can be verified in the pictures. Some say it was the same Invincible after months of repair at an unknown location (which may be Ascension Island, Georgia or even Gibraltar) others believe it was actually the HMS Illustrious, because although some differences were twins who had can recognize images available.

• Even before the war was agreed the sale of Invincible to the Indian Navy, but for unknown reasons the sale was delayed (it is that nobody wants to buy an aircraft carrier sunk or touched).

• At the time, during the Cold War, the reasons for England wanted to hide the weakness of their brand-new aircraft carriers. Why keep a secret for 99 years if nothing bad happened?

• Argentina did not have satellite imagery or intelligence network to confirm the effects of the attack, denying it was the smartest thing they could do the English, and ultimately what they did.

• It is not unknown to the English practice to hide the sinking of an aircraft carrier. The sinking of HMS Dasher, which took place in 1943 during World War II, remained hidden for 50 years. In fact it was released in the nineties, after the Falklands. On that occasion 358 crew died.

HMS Invincible during the war

“HMS Invincible” returning after the war

In these two pictures can tell the difference between the Invincible who went to war and returned to port Invincible which is very similar to the Illustrious. The first difference that jumps out is the color of communication towers in the first photo black and clear in the second. Those most knowledgeable (and applying a bit of zoom) may also notice another detail that relate to the differences of the tower Palanx a kind of turret attached to the ramp did not have the Invincible, Illustrious but yes in the first picture is absent, but mysteriously appears in the second photo. See also the lack of carries in the anchor hole in the second photo, this is because the Illustrious is an improved and redesigned model of the eighties.

Testimonies

In the next video you can see the testimony of those involved in the operation. The first one computer is a recreation of the attack, the second video is more extensive and more detailed accounts are:

SpanishRussianEnglish—Detect language—AfrikaansAlbanianArabicBelarusianBulgarianCatalanChineseCroatianCzechDanishDutchEnglishEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchGalicianGermanGreekHebrewHindiHungarianIcelandicIndonesianIri****alianJapaneseKoreanLatvianLithuanianMacedonianMalayMalteseNorwegianPersianPolishPortugueseRomanianRussianSerbianSlovakSlovenianSpanishSwahiliSwedishThaiTurkishUkrainianVietnameseWelshYiddish > EnglishSpanish—AfrikaansAlbanianArabicBelarusianBulgarianCatalanChinese (Simplified)Chinese (Traditional)CroatianCzechDanishDutchEnglishEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchGalicianGermanGreekHebrewHindiHungarianIcelandicIndonesianIri****alianJapaneseKoreanLatvianLithuanianMacedonianMalayMalteseNorwegianPersianPolishPortugueseRomanianRussianSerbianSlovakSlovenianSpanishSwahiliSwedishThaiTurkishUkrainianVietnameseWelshYiddish swap
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Thank you for contributing your translation suggestion to Google Translate.We’ll use your suggestion to improve translation quality in future updates to our system. I wonder if the slaughter of these pilots returned to their country Falklands. But I know something else, perhaps more importantly … that when, hereafter, imagine the Argentine and not think about the typical gaucho, the tango singer waxed or magazine president. Think of those pilots that have managed to die to know why they lived today privilege available to very few.

It is commonplace to say that Argentina has been blessed by all the gifts of heaven and earth, but above all, now we see it, their children who became aviators.

During the Falklands War, the world witnessed the most daring air operations were carried out against a fleet after the Second World War to date. In combination Argentina Air Force and the Navy Naval Air Squadrons sunk, or taken out of combat to 22 British ships (see list). But there was an action that stood out among the others, Operation Invincible, carried out to hunt down the flagship of the British fleet: the aircraft carrier HMS Invincible.

Operation Invincible

On 29 May 1982, the 2nd Squadron Naval Air Attack Game and was ordered to prepare a mission to attack a target that was located 80 miles east of Falkland, in exactly the 090 ° radial. It was thought that there was the “Invincible”.

After the sinking of the “Atlantic Conveyor” was only one AM-39 Exocet. The opportunity, this time to the couple formed by Lieutenant Commander Alexander Francisco and Lieutenant Louis Collavino.

A commitment not allowed to operationalize the British aircraft carrier away beyond the 100 miles from the combat zones, because the range of the Harrier (including the maneuvers in the air) did not exceed that distance. They need planes that take off, fly to the target, were in the air for a while and return them was essential to have “presence in the air.”

During the morning of the 29th and Collavino Francisco, with help from the rest of the squadron were used to finalize some details of the mission. First, we determined the schedule, noting that until then had operated the Super Etendard always late in the afternoon, for one hours it would look unusual, preferably in the morning or no later than noon.

Secondly, and in order to make a bow and hit the target for the East, something quite improbable from all logic, they should be dual in-flight refueling. If the second opportunity arose setbacks, the aircraft could return to their base, but not accomplish the mission. It would not be the first time that problems arise in the replenishment maneuver, there are many variables that make the method is not always safe. Furthermore, the mission required the aircraft tanks moved far to the east, with all the risks involved. To avoid detection of Hercules by a picket enemy and that this raised the alarm before the evidence of a resupply mission for the Southeast, the tanks were requested not to carry out a direct route from Rio Gallegos to the point of meeting with the Super Etendard, but will stick to the mainland and then follow a route almost identical to that of the attacking planes.

At noon all was ready. Upon receipt of the confirmation of when the meetings with the Hercules take off.

In the pre-flight room Collavino Francisco and awaited the moment of departure. But for reasons of time, the mission was called off because it was a very complex attack, which involved very detailed coordination that had to dedicate her time. They’d have to reconcile flight profiles of different aircraft, and also have another aircraft refueling tank twice.

From that moment, the pilots began to adjust a number of details, whereas the flight, which would join the four fighter A-4C “Skyhawk” Air Force would be done the next day.

During a meeting that had been done during the morning of 29 in San Julian, the Squadron Commander of the A-4C of the Air Force met in his office, all heads of squads, to let them know of the existence of the mission against the British aircraft carrier.

The four aircraft after the launch of Exocet by one of the Super Etendard, continue to pass on the target and bomb it, trying to penetrate the defensive barrier that ships are always protecting the carriers. A barrier that is generally very difficult to cross. Therefore, their risk was very high, more so that the attack would have to do it in open water, where the detection capability of the enemy was complete and advance to the weapons systems enough time to react efficiently .

When Commander finished his presentation, gave a brief silence, slowly, unable to hide the emotion itself by the time he was living, he asked those who wished to voluntarily take part in the attack.

Another silence enveloped the crowd.
– Sir, request permission to participate.

First Lieutenant Ernesto Rubén Ureta had risen.

Almost simultaneously rose First Lieutenant Jose Vazquez
– Lord I want to go.
– Well – the Commandant – You nominate the other two drivers.

So they did. Among the other officers of the squadron, was elected First Lieutenant Omar Jesus Castillo and Gerardo Guillermo Isaac Ensign.

On Sunday 30 dawned as usual in Rio Grande: cloudy, very cold, with frost everywhere.

The pre-flight room, very early, intense activity recorded. Francisco, Collavino and virtually all other members of the squadron, met with Air Force pilots would participate in the mission. Together, they made the final coordination, asserting the importance of discretion and arranging the flight profile of the A-4C of the Super Etendard.

– What will you do if one of its planes back by failures? – I ask Francisco Vazquez, who was the leader of the squadron of the Air Force.
– In that case continue to the other three.

Francisco asked again
– What if a second plane has to return?
– Continue to the other two. Only cancel the mission, for our part, of course, if they miss three machines. Going with a single plane makes no sense.

For a moment all were silent. If for the Super Etendard that attack, by their nature was very risky, but it was for the pilots of the A-4C that although volunteers were not unaware of the tremendous risk they were running. The orders they had was to attack the target on which impact the Exocet, whatever, it was assumed that the ship would be more helpless than another that was intact. It was the only way to increase the chances of sinking the “Invincible”, where the missile on the aircraft carrier stick.

Around 12:30 pm Francisco received permission from the control tower of the Rio Grande. A little further back and to his right, waiting for their leader Collavino took off first to do it seconds later.

Francisco accelerated to eighty percent of the power of the turbine, released the brakes and the Super Etendard, with the last Exocet AM-39 available, began its takeoff roll.

Approximately five minutes later, one after another was taking off the A-4C. As the Super Etendard, amounted to 12,000 feet and headed southeast.

After flying for fifty minutes with a more than acceptable weather, the Super Etendard reached the point where the two were waiting Hercules. Smoothly completed the refueling and allowed the A-4C do the same.

The novelty of this mission was, perhaps, how to replenish: to increase the radius of action was decided that the six planes to fly the aircraft tanks together, taking turns to suck fuel for almost 300 km. The maneuver was performed perfectly. Everything went as planned.

From there the planes they headed east, to reach the site from further away and making a second replenishment.

Burden “full”, the aircraft was well off the Hercules and took the attack formation, the two Super Etendard forward one miles apart from each other, behind each Super Etendard, two Skyhawk.

They began to meet the descent profile. Were completing the detour of the British ships, which at that time was on his left, and soon was flying low over a rough sea, whose waves were splashing the windshield and small mancas salt in them.

The requirements of radio silence and strict discipline were met.
Francisco looked at his letter, which was bent at the knee right: according to calculations and information from the aircraft carrier was less than 300 km. away.

Meanwhile, scattered showers were moments of such intensity that could even appear on the radar screen.

And it did. When the two Super Etendard amounted to issue the radar echoes were many scattered. He immediately got out and continued the fly-by.

A mile later they climbed again and issued. Collavino approached her gaze to the screen, to better distinguish: an eco had apparently true. At that moment he heard in his voice headset Francisco:

– I got it, I got hooked!

Collavino also detected the same echo and exclaimed excitedly:

– I have also hooked!

– Twenty miles to the front! In the bow!

Missile Launcher! – Francis said, and pressed the shutter button.

The plane shook Francisco.

Collavino and Skyhawk pilots watched as the missile was suggested by the Super Etendard, fell two or three meters and it seemed he would crash into the water, turned on his engine and began to fly, and stabilized, level with the water, leaving a trail of white smoke product of the combustion gases.

Again, the missile had been launched in an excellent position and a distance shot that ensured the impact on a perfectly white highlighted by the systems of the Super Etendard.

Immediately, the two naval aircraft veered to the left and left to return to base.

Released some 24 nautical miles of white, Exocet would take about 109 seconds to reach the target, while that instance to the mean-4c to 153 seconds but without the initial surprise, that is facing anti-aircraft ships.

The four aircraft from the FAA had followed the trail of the Exocet, en route to the target, but as the missile developed much faster, soon lost sight of, although visibility was good and amounted to little more than 15 km.
Vazquez was the squadron leader, motioned to close their numerals for training.

The aircraft configured with three 250 kg bombs. each, were rapidly approaching the target, in flight ground: just 12 mts. separated from the water.

Suddenly in the distance appeared a dark spot, blurred by the haze effect. There was no doubt there was, inexplicably alone, without other vessels nearby. It was time to come face to face with one of the most sought after ships of the Task Force.

Gradually, the unmistakable figure of the aircraft carrier was becoming clearer, sharper: the cover slightly curved upward in the area of the bow, the “island” (group of buildings located on the deck of aircraft carriers and moved into a side of it) shifted to the starboard side. The boat sailed very slowly. Something stands out: from the base of the “island” came a dense column of smoke was increasing in size. He quickly realized that was the indisputable proof that the Exocet was shocked. The black smoke was rising from the center of the superstructure and below the runway, as if the Exocet had made an impact between the waterline and the deck. Not observed fire. There were no flames but smoke emerged bubbling black-topped island-forward and backward through the 2 bowls of white radomes fore and aft.

When the pilots arrived about 12 km. white, put maximum power in their engines and prepared for final approach. A flying left and Castillo Vázquez, and right, Ureta and Isaac.

At that time, no one saw a missile coming, hit Vazquez’s plane, which exploded, 8 kms. the target.

Trying to master the anxiety and the impression he had caused the unexpected death of its leader, the three drivers continued their flight.

The target was about two kilometers. I almost was going to “jump” to download a new pump when the explosion struck, was the plane exploded and Castillo also practically disintegrated in the air. The machines Ureta and Isaac shook because of the blast.

Missiles and AAA fired from a ship from the west, hit the two planes flying to the left of training.

Ureta angrily pulled the trigger of their guns and pick up his plane, releasing the cargo and carriers across the fore and aft at an angle of 30 ° from the axis of the ship.

For his part, Isaac also pulled their guns, throw bombs and crossed to the ship when it was covered with smoke. Ahead to avoid bringing the tower to the right and shot, ironing water, started to perform evasive maneuvers while taking the path of escape.

As he walked away, could see that the carrier had been completely hidden behind layers of black smoke.

So, they flew, separated for a few miles, good grazing and absolute radio silence.

In the distance, a little to the right, one point seemed to grow. If it was the plane that had seen Ureta and was slowing down.

– Isaac go to the nurse – she said, referring to the aircraft tank.

“Yes, sir, understood.

The words were not needed. They had managed to reach the aircraft carrier, struck him and were returning home. But they had lost two friends forever.

Approximately 70 km. the point where they were found, with the air tank, leaving the two amounted Skyhawk ground shipping.

The 2 KC-130 waiting to about 5,000 feet, in an area where, fortunately had a good time.

One of the crewmembers of the KC-130 Hercules, intrigued to know the outcome of the mission, question through gestures Isaac, who replied:

– “We did this ****!”

After loading fuel headed for Rio Grande. Nearly three hours after take-off and they still had about another hour of flight.

Ureta landed in the foreground; seconds after Isaac did. Among the drivers waiting for the arrival, were Collavino Francisco, which had just landed and that they felt the death of Vasquez and Castillo as having been lifelong companions.

Ureta and Isaac embraced, crying, comrades, fighting all the tension. Slowly they walked towards the officers of the base where separately provided a detailed report of the attack, something very important, as they had the opportunity to pass on the goal and make the throws.

According to the data that was providing, to make an analysis of the shape of the British ships, a kind of “identity kit”.

Described thus leaving the Exocet, the silhouette of the target and the exit of smoke from this, knowing that it was the impact of the missile.

Ureta said the spacecraft had crossed from the stern and into the starboard mura, saying that achieving a good shot. Accurately described the aircraft carrier, two fireplaces, their “island” great, the separation of this with respect to the central axis of the vessel, radomes-colored, flat stern. All agreed that this was “Invincible” and not “Hermes”.

The information I provide Isaac was similar to that of Ureta. Like him, when he was shown a series of silhouettes of different vessels, did not hesitate: “This is what we attack,” he said referring to “Invincible”.

The day after the mission, with radar from the Malvinas, was made the Harrier CAP control that had been done since long ago: British air activity had decreased significantly.

Damage:
An Exocet missile hit the aircraft carrier, along with three pumps of 250 kgs. each, which penetrated the ship’s deck and caused serious damage and principle of fire in the hangar area, although one did not explode.

Ships involved:
2 Super Etendard – 2nd Game and Esc Naval Air Attack (ARA) (Ala)
4 A-4C Skyhawk – IV Air Brigade (FAA) (Zonda)
2 Hercules C-130 – First Brigade Aviation (FAA) (Ranquel)

Maps of the mission:

The consequences of the attack

England never recognized that the Invincible had been attacked. In subsequent contradictory statements the British government said that the attack never took place, which did exist but was repulsed the attack (in the process knocking the Avenger to the Exocet missile with his gun) and also existed and that the attack was successful, but the target was not the Invincible.

In any case we should clarify that although the British government on the issue made a secret of 99 years, something unprecedented in the history of warfare. This means that in 2081 just going to tell the truth, meanwhile their claims are worthless.

It is highly likely that after a successful attack the Invincible has been seriously damaged, or rest today in the seabed, and his triumphant return to England has been a staging using his identical twin (or almost identical) HMS Illustrious. On what basis do we say this:

• After the attack, the Argentine radar located in the Falklands, detects a British helicopter activity, which was heading east on East Falkland. While the Invincible aircraft soar to 12,000 feet (maneuver to save fuel). Then the planes landing at San Carlos, where British troops were established on 21 May.

• That same day (30/05/82) General J. Moore, decided to move from the Invincible (where he directed all operations so far) to San Carlos, to continue commanding the troops from there.

• British air activity in early June was the rarest of the entire campaign.

• It is simply not possible to shoot down an Exocet Avenger with his cannon.

• The HMS Invincible took 4 months to enter port after the conflict, more than any other ship in the fleet, and is also the longest time that a carrier has remained untouched port. During that time he was lost sight of all.

• Wolling Bryan’s testimony, navy nurse of HMS Invincible, receiving a medal for his outstanding performance in the war, which claims to have had serious problems for the care of wounded and burned in the carrier. Wolling was dishonorably discharged from the Royal Navy. In 1999, won a lawsuit against the Royal Navy, on the stand stating the details of the care of seriously wounded by the Argentine air attack in the same Invincible.

• The aircraft carrier crew list was never revealed, looks like a ghost ship without crew for 4 months and lost.

• The Invincible was the only ship of the fleet to which the media were not allowed access after the war.

• The aircraft carrier entered a British port to 4 months after the end of the war under the name HMS Invincible was very different to the left for the war. This can be verified in the pictures. Some say it was the same Invincible after months of repair at an unknown location (which may be Ascension Island, Georgia or even Gibraltar) others believe it was actually the HMS Illustrious, because although some differences were twins who had can recognize images available.

• Even before the war was agreed the sale of Invincible to the Indian Navy, but for unknown reasons the sale was delayed (it is that nobody wants to buy an aircraft carrier sunk or touched).

• At the time, during the Cold War, the reasons for England wanted to hide the weakness of their brand-new aircraft carriers. Why keep a secret for 99 years if nothing bad happened?

• Argentina did not have satellite imagery or intelligence network to confirm the effects of the attack, denying it was the smartest thing they could do the English, and ultimately what they did.

• It is not unknown to the English practice to hide the sinking of an aircraft carrier. The sinking of HMS Dasher, which took place in 1943 during World War II, remained hidden for 50 years. In fact it was released in the nineties, after the Falklands. On that occasion 358 crew died.

HMS Invincible during the war

“HMS Invincible” returning after the war

In these two pictures can tell the difference between the Invincible who went to war and returned to port Invincible which is very similar to the Illustrious. The first difference that jumps out is the color of communication towers in the first photo black and clear in the second. Those most knowledgeable (and applying a bit of zoom) may also notice another detail that relate to the differences of the tower Palanx a kind of turret attached to the ramp did not have the Invincible, Illustrious but yes in the first picture is absent, but mysteriously appears in the second photo. See also the lack of carries in the anchor hole in the second photo, this is because the Illustrious is an improved and redesigned model of the eighties.

Testimonies

In the next video you can see the testimony of those involved in the operation. The first one computer is a recreation of the attack, the second video is more extensive and more detailed accounts are:

Google Home – About Google Translate Beta

http://www.nuestromar.org/noticias/mar_calmo_052009_23933_el_ataque_al_hms_invincible

Most details are from Western sources to claim some credibility. Whatever source you will use, your are not freed to do reassess it again and again as long as new details do surface about the related incident. After some time you will get a detailed picture and will learn to differ between claims and reality. Like a criminalist asking the same question several times to find out contradictions or missing details.

At what time was the mission of Spicher? [= question of view from cockpit!]
From which carrier in the Red Sea he did start it? [= to learn the distance to target and related flight-time and terrain passed f.e.]
Who where the members of his flight? […]
What was their target and attack time?
What mission profile was choosen?
What was the weapons-load?
Was Spicher be warned by the E-2C supporting the strike force?
What did his flight members learn from their sensors about that?
The R-40 is a big AAM, can it be confused with a SAM-6 in night-time?
Had the F-18 an idea about a MiG-25 in firing distance?
What is the range from a R-40 fired by a MiG-25 at a speed similar to other US-fighters around and hidden in ground-clutter?
The Israelis had learned from their E-2C, that those are restriced by ground clutter of mountainous terrain.
Had the US-forces problems to spot the remains of the lost F-18?
When did the USN learn from the attack of a MiG-25 and by whom?
Did they review the radar-pictures of the E-2C to verify the claim about a MiG-25?
Sometimes it took some time to find some important information or details at least. Does not work always, so some question-marks are still alive for some years to come.

Every serious airforce is intrested in the real cause of losses, because it does help to prevent future ones. Like every civil investigation about an aircraft accident or loss.
By the number of missions flown by the allied forces in 1991 some dozen losses and their causes did change nothing about the outcome of that conflict.
Even the higher number of losses in Korea or Vietnam gave the opponents of the USA never the impression, that US-air-power is no longer a devasting force. Even the claims of some “comical Ali’s” did change nothing about that. For the US forces an aircraft or pilot lost is a loss, whatever the related reason was. When the military are aware that every combat or war has some losses, the public in Western societies is not used to that in a similar way, when not involved into conflict for some time. So the weaker party does have an intrest to claim higher gains if achieved or not for the public. The country suffering from blows will look into some compensation at least or keep the feeling of honor. Nearly all Syrian pilots attributed with some kills did become victims too and by that no chance to confirm or to deny that claims. Whatever has happened in June 82, the Syrian leadership was forced to restore some confidence in the own abilities. Pilots in Israeli are the selected few and not the single loss of one could be concealed for some time even, so it was not even tried.

The point is simple if you are going to believe something because is eastern or western is pointless, the reality is more complex than what one side claims.

The Iraqies did not claim all their kills were from SAMs and not the exact number their western rivals affirm.

Your analysis simple says the other side lies but mine does not.
It is logic the so called SAM kills are mostly propaganda, it is posible 70% of the kills were achieved by SAMs well that is possible, and other 10% by AAA but at least a 10% or 20% must be by fighters and what most non western sources say is simple, they shot down enemy fighters, now if you want to believe it or not is up to you.

In my case i found illogic that the only losses acknowledged are those where POW were taken and all the kills made by SAMs.

In fact is even said by many western analisys that most pilots do not know what really shot them down so if the other sides say our fighters did means simply there is a very likely posibility it is true

How about to stick to the undisputed facts.
The atomic program of France and Israel has started in the 50s including the related rocket-technology. Both did not sign treaties about nuclear technology. President Kennedy exercised considerably on both about that.
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/issues/proliferation/israel/images/05-01.gif
http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/51153363.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26c%3DIWSAsset%26k%3D2%26d%3D17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A6457BBB21EB4F4DC6688C6CDC44E04CDD&imgrefurl=http://www.life.com/image/51153363&usg=__JC8g-5QRaW6nCzIYX8USdjTUs5A=&h=373&w=594&sz=35&hl=de&start=76&um=1&tbnid=RlYzX8fMLiSd8M:&tbnh=85&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddimona%2Breactor%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Dde%26sa%3DN%26start%3D72%26um%3D1

All that pictures can be taken from public-road number 25 east of Rotem junction. The first picture was published by the New York Times in December 1960, when the pominent structure in built does show up and its nature was no longer in question. From that time-scale it was no longer a real secret to the public. Just under President Johnson the USA and Israel had a silent agreement. Israel does not claim to have atomic weapons offical, when USA will accept that and do behave in a similar. There is a constant leak of informations about Israeli atomic weapons, but Israel did stick to the agreement of the 60s. Every Israeli not sticking to that line did come under constant pressure. As long as none did show an Israeli Atomic-weapon, there was no proof of that. The Israelis never demonstrated the related technology to the public. When the Iraq or the Iran could not resist to do so and did become under severe pressure. At least when both had signed non prolifertion treaty and do threaten the being of an UN-member like Israel.

That claim about the MiG-23SM in Feb 19th, 1974 is not from the Syrians. It is a claim from an Eastern website more than two decades later. The first note about MiG-23s in Syrian service did come at the end of Nov, 1974.
Neither the USA not the SU did deliver new fighters till the Geneva agreement was signed at May 31, 1974. From November that year Israel did receive new F-4Es coded Peace Echo V, when Syria and Egypt received their new MiG-23s from that time-scale too. See the first note about MiG-23s in Syria and the Egyptian confirmation later on.

Spining the facts?

Why do not you addmit the facts, number one the MiG-23MS victory over the F-4 in 1974 comes from an interview to the Syrian pilot Maj al-Masry, second the trend was only the victories acknolwledged to the other side by Israel were from pilots who were POWs and Yigal Stavi was KIA and Benny Kiryati became a POW that has been acknowledged by Israel.
Mordechai Vanunu won`t agree about the freedom of speech in Israel since the guy is basicly a pacifist who was in jail for betraying the state of Israel but whose convictions are pacifists

this was first supplied to Syria – two MiG-23MS versions and two MiG-23UB two-seaters were shipped in crates on October 14, 1973, aboard two Antonov An-12B Cub transports, which landed at al-Mazzah air base. Before these four could be assembled, flight-tested and their crews made combat ready, the war with Israel was officially over.

http://www.testpilot.ru/review/war/mig23.htm

So now the Russians won`t know when they did deliver the MiG-23MS to Syria niether they will have accurate date for it uhmmm….

Iran receive help from USSR, did they? I don’t think Iran got much from the USSR, relations between the two countries weren’t very good at the time.

Iran did receive some material from China, but it was basically dated stuff and it was to little to make much difference.

It was a very evenly match war, since non of the contenders could take over the capital city or occupy the whole territory of each other.

Also both nations had mostly third generation fighter aircraft and very few fouth generation combat aircraft available.

Iran had few F-14s to rely on and Iraq had fast and difficult to catch MiG-25s.

Hi guys … once again I have a problem related to some contradicting reports. Several “sources” say that China obtained the MiG-23MS (together with several other items) via Egypt during the mid to late 1970s.
Then it is said that Institute 601 and Factory 112 carried out a full and comprehensive technical analysis and that this engine – reportedly to be manufactured by Factory 410 – was planned to power the J-9, J-13 and Q-6 (in all three it was under consideration after the original WS-6 has failed or the WS-9 was deemed unsuitable).

My problem now is the designation: most “sources” call this reverse engineered powerplant WP-15 indicating a turbojet … but since the R-29-300 was a turbofan, the designation seems wrong or at least inappropriate and a WS-designation would have been correct. Any idea or help to that ?? :confused:

Thanks a lot, Deino

here is the proof that is not just a gossip but a fact

We cannot judge whether they are behind or up to standards. But the fact is that they are busy and they are moving ahead very fast. They hardly have wars to test the equipment so we do not see much unless they want us to see it. They bought Su27… They copied it. They started Fc1 and J10 and we all are not negative about those achievements. What makes you think that they are not that good besides an opinion?

From the technological point of view they have advanced a lot, but i guess sometimes is a hassle to chat with people who do not acknowledge any foreign influence in Chinese designs.

I think China is developing a good aircraft industry and in South America they are planning to buy more Chinese aircraft.

Definitively China is a modern player in aircraft design but so we can say of Brazil, in my personal opinion sometimes the articles are hyped and posts are done by ultranationalist posters who feel offended if you say China has copied or gotten technology transfers.

In the case of Mexico we are not copying but we are working with US, Canadian and EU companies to develop aircraft, China in that sense is ahead of us but not like many will think, we also do research and design.

In few words we have to acknowledge China made great advances and that is allright with me, but we have to see what is truelly Chinese and what is a technogy borrowed.

China has both but still some people do not want to admit either of one

They have interesting designs too