Arthur,

The F-15 was designed from ther start as an air superiority fighter! dog-fighting and manueverability was the main goal of its design. Although the radar and missiles were considered the strong-point of its mission, ie, it could shoot and forget, and hopefully avoid a dog-fight, but if it had to it will turn with the best of them. Remember the F-16 was designed a few years later and its high G capability was awesome, but essentially it was designed as a cheap all-mission jet, that did alot but exceled at none. Yes, I’ve seen many Migs up close, I spent alot of time in the Soviet Union back in the late 1980’s as well as Red Flag events where we have an extensive museum of Russian hardware, used to be classified, no more. PS the Eagle can pull up to 9G, I have direct proof of this, from numerous friends who fly it. But they would rather pickle an AMMRAM at 30 miles out and avoid a dog-fight.

Geforce, Arthur

You guys don’t get it, The amount of money the US spends on defence is Huge, but still only a very small part of our national budget, and no offence ,but Many smaller countries can be neutral, but when the chips are down, you know it will probably be the US to come help.

I notice many Europeans are amazed that we don’t have Health care for all in the US but the majority of the people here don’t want it! Americans don’t view governmennt as a solution to most problems, usually government is the cause of many problems. Its ineficient, slow, andLike I said before, tax me less and I will provide the health coverage for my family, at a cheaper price and better service. As a military man, I can vouch that the healthcare I recieve in the Air Force is poor compared to the coverage at my civilian job, and if the governmnet can’t take care of healthy young people in the military what kind of job will they do for the rest of society. By the way I travel around the world and rarely do I meet anyone who thinks socialized medicine is good, You may feel its free, but your probably paying, $600 a month in extra taxes, whereas I may pay $300 for better private.
Freedom is a wonderful thing, freedom from government interference in your life is great too, its what makes the US great, although inequalities do occur. No easy answer, but the government is no solution. This I feel is the huge difference in Ideology between the US and Europe. I can’t explain this any further, My Father left Italy and became wealthy here with no formal education or skills, largely because he was free to pursue his goals free of most rules and regulations/taxes, that may discourage many others. I for one would never try to start a business if the government will take half of my money., and when incentive is lost ,society stagnates and everyone becomes content just to get by……….sad, thats what happened under the communists and alot of socialism leads in this same direction eventually.
PS I believe Defence spending in the US accounts for only 4% of our gross domestic spending, but also it contributes to many high tech well-paying jobs, and expands the boundaries of science and technology, as well as preserving the peace, or putting a hurt on someone who deserves it!!!!

Frank VW,

Thanks for your response, Sorry to hear you don’t have the money for a license, I know it is very expensive in Europe, which goes back to one of my points in a past post. You stated that your taxes are quite high, but in return you recieve some degree of “security” in your life from your government. While not trying to give a civics lesson here, most Americans would rather give up some of the percieved benefits that government provides, and instead would rather pay much lower taxes, and be responsible for themselves and their families to provide medical, retirement, job security etc etc. I find this to be the most important debate today in the US and a big difference between the US and Europe. Americans by and large feel the government should have very little involvement in our lives other than to protect our rights and defend our nation. Frankly Government does a poor job at anything else. This philosophy of the “rugged individualist” is part of the American psyche and I get the impression that many non-Americans can’t relate to it. It is also what drives Americans to accomplish alot. You’d be amazed at what people can do when red-tape, and high tax burdens are eliminated. People have incentive to work harder, start new businesses etc etc. I fly with many European pilots who agree. Of course I’m not speaking for everyone and many Americans want the government to tend to their needs.
Getting back to your flying license, i did my Private Pilot back in 1985 for $600 US approx 48 hours!!! I was very lucky to have my best friend as my instructor and he never charged me for instruction!! and alot of my flights were flights that he had to make for work, and I went along as a “friend” while he instructed me!!! Then the US Air Force did the rest. Today in the US I’d guess it would cost around $2,500-$3,000
Although those micro-soft flight sims are remarkable too and alot cheaper!!
Take Care, TTP

Kev 35,

We’ve known about them for the last 20 years, just like we’ve known about the Chinese and the Russians have nukes for the last 50 years, So whats your point??? The reason we didn’t do anything about them was because prior to SEPT 11, they weren’t a threat! after Sept 11 they are a threat??? is this so hard for you guys to realize the impact of SEPT 11th?? can’t you realize that everything has changed because the threats are different. The US fears no nation or army but we are fearful of a few lunatics with a briefcase full of WMD’s I find it incredible that many of you can’t get this through your heads. It is called assymetrical warfare, This is a totally different concept of warfare and it has changed how our nation will conduct our foreign affairs. And by the way very few people in the US could care less about what the French government thinks about anything, France chose to hitch their horse with Saddam and spit in America’s face, I dare say America needs France far less than the French need us, Good luck flying those Airbuses without engines or avionics. Sorry to go on a rant Kev, Hope I answered your question

Arthur,

Take a good look at the North-American Vigilante, first flew in the late 1950’s, The Mig 25 and the F-15 are only similar in that they have twin-tails, very different jets

FrankVW
Sorry if My tone was insulting. In the US today there is quite a debate between the right and left especially in the area of public education. It seems alot of the “hippies” of the 1960’s became teachers and college professors and are spewing alot of left-wing rhetoric and politics to children, this came to light most recently in New York, when a Columbia U professor wished
“a thousand Mogadishu’s on our troops”
This comiing out of one of the most prestigious Schools in the country, also alot of the anti-war protest groups were found to have serious left/socialist/communist backing and were more concerned with Destroying Bush’s presidency as opposed to the war itself. That said, we use the term socialist around here to denote many groups who reside on the left of the political spectrum, not necessarily real socialists.
Since you have been on the forum a long time, I have one question, are most of the participants pilots, or just aviation fans?, Just curious because I spend some time on Pprune.com and this is far more professional in nature in regards to aviation subjects, as well as political, seems to me alot of young kids spewing off alot of rhetoric, just like our “hollywood” knuckleheads have been doing as of late, Though I must say after the events of the last few days they are all eating crow.

Arthur,

Are you implying that you don’t think there are WMD in Iraq?
Just look at the last 15 years, Iraq used chemical weapons against his own people, the Iranians, and this whole war culminating in his demise has been predicated on the issue of his failure to prove to the UN that he destroyed the weapons he was KNOWN to POSSESS. Just think all he had to do was to show the UN, not the US where the weapons were or how they destroyed them, and he’d still be in power, and NO WAR, yet he failed to do this over a 12 year period, incurring sanctions on his people and ultimately the destruction of his twisted regime!!! Yet, I guess you may be right since we haven’t found any WMD’s Only loads of Atrophine, Gas masks, Artillery shells modified for chemical ops, countless soldiers testifying about training in chem-ops, Camoflauged plants, run by an ARMY GENERAL, supposedly making fertilizer or pesticides!!! intercepted signet about chems etc etc etc , I don’t know where your from, but where I live the local fertilizer plant isn’t camofluged and the guy that runs it is named Bubba!!!!
Wake up and smell the coffee, In a few days all the dirt will come out, and you will be proven wrong,
I think you guys purposely put up some of these posts to illicit responces, you can’t possibly believe half the stuff you say!!!
I’ll be glad to talk with you guys about flying or airplanes, but as far as politics are concerned, its not worth the effort. You just keep that red star on your post, symbolic of what was wrong with the world for so long.

GarryB

You need to brush up on your history, Admiral Yamamoto has been quoted numerous times, as well as other Japaneses who were there, as stating that most if not all the proponents of attacking the US believed that if the attacks were devastating enough that the US would sue for peace and allow the Japanese to take the oil from the east Indies. It was a calculated risk, by the Japapnese. Yamamoto himself, did not believe that the US would roll-over and try to negociate a peace in order to avoid war, but his position was over-ruled, Hence his famous quote after Pearl Harbor
“I suspect we have awakened a sleeping Giant” Yamamoto had traveled extensively in the US and attended some schools in the US so He had a different perspective on America.

As far as Osama Bin Laden, Your point just supports mine!!! The fact that Al-Qiada attacked the US in 93(First world trade center bombing) then again with the Kobar towers, I was there 1 week prior, African embassies and finally the USS Cole, and all the US did, Under Clinton was lob a few cruise missilies only emboldened Al-Qiada to continue more attcks!!! I’m in the US Air Force and propbably know a little more intel on these events than you.

By the way I’ve always heard nice things about New Zealand, but aren’t you the country that has essentially shut down your Air Force, I guess you can dismantle your military and hope that if it is ever needed the Aussies and US will bail you out.
Wish I was as smart as you, Learn the facts first….Read about Yamamoto, very facinnating man.