TTPSeahawk
You must rememeber alot of exercises are designed to test new tactics or weapons. For example I went to Red Flag and every day we were shot out of the sky by the “red Force” (F-16) but we gained valuable insight into what we could do to avoid a real world shoot down. On the last day, the mission was to resupply some special ops troops, so we (C-141/C-130) became the priority and we had dedicated CAP (F-15’s) as well as escorts (A-10) we were sucessful in that mission. So at the end of the exercise we were shot down 6 out of 7 days, yet we learned alot, and we also found out when we became the priority, we could survive in a hostile environmnet.
Another example, the Red force guys in their F-16s always knew we were coming just by nature of the exercise…one day we had guest Red Air, F-18’s from a nearby Navy base..they were not told who was there and what to expect, we actually defeated an f-18 attack, and were sucessful airdropping our loads, because we were able to use new tactics as well as surprise.. Also the F-18’s were waiting for the fighters to pop up at any time, so they thought we were a trap!! the fog of war!!! So you see even though on paper we were shot down alot it was a great learning experience…..I’m sure the IAF learned alot going up against an F-15, and Vice-versa…its all great training, and good fun!!!!
TTP
TTPFlex 297
what country are you from, evidentely a nation of brave heroes…so where are you from?
TTPFlex 297,
Whats your point, should the US start a war with China or Russia to prove our skills? Did you forget World War one and Two..took on a large part of the world and came out looking pretty good…get a clue
Who would you suggest a worthy nation to fight against?
TTP
TTPJa Worsley,
Your correct! It is a well known fact the RAAF does an outstanding job, and regularly “Waxes” opposing forces..It is a fantastic force well respected by all!
Two points, one US pilots are probably one on one no better than any other, but the entire force we bring to bear on any enemy is overwhelming..the stated purpose of the USAF, our doctrine is “Air Dominance” that is why we are building the F-22 even though 15’s can fly for another decade…In any future war we plan to overwhelm and completely annialate an enemy force, not spend months dog-fighting..I hope some can understand this concept..no more battle of Britain scenarios, its 600 versus 50!!
Two, USAF pilots are not automatons who can’t do anything without AWACS etc..we are trained well to react in all situations as individuals as well as a team…the overreliance on AWACS etc is because in many instances of friendly fire our ROE’s cause us to confirm multiple times before you shoot…in a all up war this wouldn’t be necessary.
TTP
PS look at WWII the USAF may not have been the best but we were by far the biggest and overwhelmed the Germans and Japanese Hell, P-51’s were shooting Me262’s because it was 75 to 1
TTPGolden Dragon,
Still currently flying in the USAF reserves, I’ll be glad to answer any questions you may have!
TTP
TTPSameer,
Many of the remarks are not intended as slights to the IAF, bottom line equally skilled pilots, in similar aircraft will always be competitive and anyone can win. Iwas just saying that alot of these exercises are not intended to simulate real combat with all the bells and whistles, and there is a cooperative and educational aspect to them.
In this day and age lets be glad there is cooperation and goodwill! as for my own personal experiences with other Air Forces, Pilots are pilots and all seem to share a love of flight, and an interest and respect for other pilots and aircraft…I spent many hours with Soviet pilots in 1989 flying in the then USSR..we may have been enemies then, but we were all the same!!!
Bring it on…Is your question directed at basic pilot training, or follow-on weapons sytem training after a pilot has earned his wings? I can help you with the basic Pilot training questions if you have them?
TTP
TTPAs a USAF pilot, C-141/C-17/T-38, All I will say is Golden Dragon is the closest so far to what goes on….Alot of my fighter friends will tell you that the exercises are “goodwill events” and like many of you stated, what good will come of an exercise where USAF eagles cream the best that India can put up???? use your heads….Instead of looking at these exercises, I have a better idea, How about the REAL WORLD!!! were USAF/NAVY crews missing targets all the time? were they shot down by enemy AAA or fighters, what were their kill ratios? and all you guys out there who love to compare the SU-30 with the F-15, the F-15 is ancient, first flew in 1972, designed in the late 60’s and soon to be replaced …also has never been BEATEN IN COMBAT, EVER!!!! Not one shot down and has been credited with over 80 kills! I’d hope the SU-30 can best a 35 year old design? and as far as hours go, I’d venture to guess we’ve been getting alot more since 9-11 in real combat ops….
Take Care,
TTP
TTPTheres also a fine example at the Travis AFB museum in California. I was there in March and the curator let us into the aircraft!! Its called “Miss America 62” and has a picture of a Pirate on it!!! We were confused about the Nose art and the curator told us, the Aircraft Commander had just became a Father, in 1944 and He figured his daughter would become Miss America in 1962!!! I forget the pirate motif, but what a great aircraft!! I just loved sitting in the cockpit with all that vis!!quite an advance over the B-17/24
TTP
TTPThanks for the compliments, I’m not taking a jab at Airbus or engineers for that matter, My comments are more directed at alot of the non-flyers who, through no fault of their own see things much differently than a pilot. I flew some spec-ops at one point in my career, and due to low lighing conditions in the cockpit, my take-off checklist was narrowed down to Flaps, Stab trim, and pitot heat…the other 19 items weren’t important at that moment…..a good example of this is on the 727, the “before take-off “checklist has about 25 items..on the 757/767 its about 5 (please correct me any 757 drivers) Thats good design…..Don’t be dazzled by all the sophistication and gadgets in a cockpit..its not necessarily a more advanced design. Just read a great book about the design of the F-16..the designers purposely omitted alot of the sophistication and advanced features to keep it light and simple, turned out to be a great aircraft…alot of the Soviet fighters are designed in this manner as well…seemingly inferior designs, but easy to fly and maintain!
TTP
TTPskycruiser,
This is a subtle point and only those who fly complex aircraft can appreciate it, but I’ll try to explain it. Simplicity is a thing of beauty in an aircraft..all the gizmo’s and functions of an auto-pilot look great in a flight manual, and may sell a jet to a airline bean-counter, but as a pilot I’ll probably utilize 30% of those functions, and I don’t have the time or inclination to use the others. Heres a good example, in the 727, we have a rather modern updated cockpit…HUDS, Glass, and GPS..There is a GPS function that can plan your descents..So If center clears you to cross a point 10 miles south at 5,000 ft you can program the GPS to fly it…heres the problem, it will take you 1 minute, and about 50 keystrokes..and then you have to monitor the descent the whole time to make sure its going to make the restriction..it uses up all your time..or you can do what I do, multiply your altitude to lose times 3 and add a few miles for wind..this works, it takes about 5 seconds to figure out, and I can set it and forget it….Alot of military flying is like this..they purposely make things simple to reduce workload, so you can concentrate on whats important.
Alot of non-pilots have the perception that all these advanced features are a sign of an advanced design, when in reality, its poor design…Reminds me of an airshow I went to, and this guy was asking the F-16 pilot alot of questions concerning ranges, weapon parameters, and such..the F-16 pilot didn’t know half of them, and the civilian guy was correcting the F-16 pilot, who admitted He forgot these numbers and was amazed that this civilian knew them..The F-16 jock asked the guy if he flew 16’s and the guy said No, but he had memorized the F-16 flight manual from his computer game!!! Real pilots filter out 60% of the bull**** and concentrate on the stuff that really matters….Boeings seem to understand this a little better than the Airbus guys…At my airline guys going from the 757/767 to the Bus all say the Boeings are more “intuitive” as far as FMC programming etc…
TTP
TTPWysiwyg,
Just repeating what I’ve been told by alot of my friends who are flying the 320..They say it doesn’t take long to figure it out, but personally I don’t understand what the advantage of designing the flight controls to do that are…why not just design them to act like normal flight controls? too many engineers in the mix, and not enough pilot input. I see it alot with avionics and “switchology” I sometimes wonder why things are designed in such a way…its obvious a pilot was not consulted…Keep it simple!
Good luck on your training.
TTP
TTPAndrew A340-600
Your assertion that the Airbus stick is better than the Yoke on Boeings is interesting, Do you fly jets? I’m going to say no, because it seems you just seem to like the stick better on a cosmetic level, though I do too! There are problems with the Airbus flight control philosophy in my opinion..I fly 727’s and C-17s (stick) For example in a crosswind, in the 727, I can place the yoke into the wind and Keep it there as I apply opposite rudder to align the jet….In the Bus you can’t keep the stick at a single position and hold it there because the way the flight controls operate it will keep on moving in that direction…for example in the Boeing if I hold ten degrees of right aileron into the wind it will stay at ten degrees..in the Bus if I hold the stick to get a ten degree bank…once it gets to ten degrees, you have to center the stick and then periodically deflect the stick again to maintain the ten degrees….It doesn’t take long to get used to this, but as a pilot, I like to have control over my plane..instead I have to play games with the computer and try and make it do what I want….its different, Boeings philosophy has always been the pilot is ultimately in control…not the computers…or some flight control engineer…saying that, I do wish Boeing would go with the sticks…more room easier to operate, and much cooler!!!!
TTP
TTPIs the 70 million dollar price correct? seems very high for an F-16
TTPLBARULES,
Your right, the average American is huge! Big hearts and big balls!!!! Unlike many others!
TTP
TTPThis move is long overdue, no threat to Europe, and South Korea, as well as Europe should be capable of defending themselves…the American Taxpayer has paid for this long enough….Just think if this Iraq situation does foster some stability, the world may be a more peaceful place…These Muslim terror groups are responsible for something like 85% of all the conflicts in the world right now…those are UN numbers, not mine
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