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benroethig

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  • in reply to: CVF Construction #2032125
    benroethig
    Participant

    The efficiency of an aircraft carrier, i.e. it’s overall ability to operate aircraft increases exponentially with the size of the ship, which is why carriers get bigger whenever the opportunity arises. As ship steel is relatively cheap compared to other aspects of warship design, you save little and cause problems for your crew by making the ship smaller, but gain greatly at little cost by making the ship bigger. The US CVNs are capable of simltaneous launch and recovery as a by product of their size and design, not because it was an important design requirement. If a notional 65,000 tonne CV costs say £2 Billion, reducing the size of the ship to 40,000 tonnes will not save a third of the cost, you will be lucky if it saves 2-5%. For that miniscule saving, you get a far less capable ship with reduced potential for future developments. American carriers designed and built in the early 50s (Forrestal class) were able to adapt without major modification to aircraft that were not even concieved when they were. If they were still in service today they would have no difficulty operating the current and future generations of naval aircraft. The smaller Essex class could not do this, and the Midways (at least CV 42 and 43) would struggle. Size matters with carriers

    One little correction, the problems was with Midways were related hanger height not size. They could launch and recover tomcats full load, they could hanger them, they just couldn’t do certain maintenance tests. Midway-sized designs conceived after WWII like CVV or the QE class would have the ability to launch, recover, hanger, and maintain anything that has ever flown off a carrier, including Tomcats. Just not as many of them.

    in reply to: CVF Construction #2032299
    benroethig
    Participant

    http://imagegallery.baesystems.investis.com/Files/images/4231/Med/CV_Rear_Med.JPG

    From what I see at least one take-off position(and possibly the second as well) lie in the way of the landing strip, so that arrangement would not allow for simultaneous take-offs and landings like the American CVNs.

    Very rarely if ever done. Cycles are more practical.

    And why only three arrestor wires instead of four?

    4th wire isn’t ever used. Operationally they’d just call a bolter.

    in reply to: Indian Navy – News & Discussion – IV #2032399
    benroethig
    Participant

    wouldn’t the Italian version be better then since the British radar requires it to be stowed inside the cabin taking up space.

    Maybe. The dish is physically larger, but I don’t know the processing power behind it or what kind of effect having the dish flush to the airframe would have.

    in reply to: Possible future light carriers #2032543
    benroethig
    Participant

    What aircraft would you put on a ship that size? There are no more Harriers. F-35B is bigger & heavier, & needs a bigger ship.

    A small CATOBAR ship based on the invincible class hull could theoretically be just big enough for Sea Gripen. Not much wiggle room though.

    in reply to: Commercial C-5A #2305012
    benroethig
    Participant

    To be honest, I don’t know if it could compete. I don’t know how much a role will still remain for the civilian heavy lift market will remain after forces withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan and Antonov has this market covered with far cheaper aircraft.

    in reply to: Possible future light carriers #2032565
    benroethig
    Participant

    IMHO, a big driver of carrier size today is actually sortie type, not sortie numbers or aircraft size/numbers. A strike carrier has much more demanding specs than a sea control carrier:

    – Longer catapults (90m ideal)
    – Larger bow deck park to accommodate returning alpha strikes
    – Much larger munitions capacity (which is volume intensive because there are only a limited number of spaces where you can safely fit munitions)
    – More demands of air group personnel, meaning larger accomodation spaces

    The end result is that a strike carrier needs to be much longer and beamier. ~60,000t is pretty much the minimum these days (see the French PA2 Romeo/PADSX design). The fact that you can carry more aircraft on a carrier that size is almost a side benefit, not a primary driver – to be clear, aircraft parking space is NOT the limiting factor.

    By contrast, a pure air defense/sea control carrier can make do with 60m catapults and smaller aircraft packages (perhaps no more than 6-8 aircraft airborne, as on HMAS Melbourne), both of which allow for much smaller deck sizes. And much smaller munitions storage, which allows for a smaller hull. Given that the recovery area size is incompressible, that leaves much less deck space for aircraft parking, which is therefore much more likely to be the limiting factor.

    Finally, for the strike mission, smaller naval aircraft such as a Sea Gripen can actually be counter-productive in terms of carrier size, because they tend to have less thrust-to-weight/weaker structure, and hence a reduced take-off & bring-back payload. A larger % of that reduced payload then ends up being eaten by basic mission needs (AAMs, reserve fuel, electronics etc), leaving only a fraction of the smaller aircraft’s payload available for A2G needs.

    The extreme example of this is on CdG, where one Rafale can carry as much A2G payload as six Super Etendards! I’m willing to bet that a Su-33 vs. Mig-29K comparison would tell a similar story. You could also compare the A-4M vs. A-7E or F/A-18C vs F/A-18E and see a similar pattern. Basically economies of scale are much more significant for carrier aircraft with high landing stresses and low stall speed requirements, than they are for land-based aircraft.

    The Sea Gripen would be much better than a Super Etendard obviously, but I still think that you’d probably need ~60 Gripen to match the payload-range of say 30 Rafale/F-35C/Super Hornet (for strike missions at least), and this would end up driving the carrier size.

    All the above is my non-technical amateur’s understanding of course.

    On the flipside, modern engines and avionics capabilities allow a lot more plane in a given package. Self escorted strike mission with a pair each of SRAAMs, MRAAMs, drop tanks, and up to 2,000lbs class smart weapons isn’t a slouch. It would give a country like Brazil, Australia, Spain, or India a very credible strike capability at a much more affordable price.

    in reply to: Possible future light carriers #2032569
    benroethig
    Participant

    how about the 2nd hand indian carrier vikramaditya? that stikes me as a potential light carrier, a few mig 29k fighters,ok its not upto date,but its new for india!

    That ship is the same length as the QE-class. The only thing light about it is the STOBAR reduced air wing

    in reply to: Possible future light carriers #2032643
    benroethig
    Participant

    As was said before, 40k+ tons is not light. But it is too small to run an airwing that justifies all the expenses of a carrier.

    Not using twin engine jets designed for carriers over 60k tons, but 40k with 24-30 Sea Gripens would be a very credible ship.

    in reply to: Indian Navy – News & Discussion – IV #2032699
    benroethig
    Participant

    I thought the AEW version will have a huge bulb protruding out of its derriere?

    http://media.aerosociety.com/aerospace-insight/files/2011/07/AW101-ASaC.jpg

    British version built around the searchwater-based system in the sea king. The Italian version is based on a heavily modified and enlarged version of their APS 784 radar.

    in reply to: Indian Navy – News & Discussion – IV #2033243
    benroethig
    Participant

    Vikramaditya is 85% complete and should be delivered by end of 2012…

    Unless Moscow decides they want more money.

    in reply to: Carrier Hilarity on the Beeb #2369657
    benroethig
    Participant

    Why would that be a joke?

    Yes, the way the British politicians treat defense procurement is a joke. Unfortunately, its not one that’s funny in the least.

    in reply to: CVF Construction #2037479
    benroethig
    Participant

    Apologies for bring this up again (but I have joined since then), and I know it was said tongue in cheek but..

    Add 3 cats – CVF will have 2 I believe. Does that mean that the Fords will have 5?

    4 is the maximum you can put on a carrier with traditional angled configuration.

    CVF has two cats. A waist cat and port bow cat. The slightly larger 304m Midway class had three: the waist cat, the port bow cat, and a starboard bow cat. Using the PA2 configuration of a single island between the elevators, it theoretically could be possible to add the starboard cat. Honestly though, I think CVF/PA2 are 20-25m too short for that.

    in reply to: Marinised Typoon #2370880
    benroethig
    Participant

    as said, le rafale 90% commonality is due to the fact that all airframes are “naval” airframes”, which have been stripped of some equipments and had lighter landing gears installed for the airforce.

    Right which is why there’s only like a 700kg difference between the C and M.

    er, it’s written “catapult and skijump”… did they invent some new sort of catapult or what? didn’t know you could fit one on a ski-jump deck? :confused:

    Technically you can build EMALS into a ski-jump but you end up with all your deck space being taken up like a normal STOBAR with very little added benefit.

    in reply to: Marinised Typoon #2371527
    benroethig
    Participant

    No, I get the point.

    This is essentially the deal the RAAF took with the SH BII, they didn’t integrate ASRAAM they just bought AIM-9x off the shelf, they didn’t integrate Lightning they just bought ATFLIR off the shelf, they don’t intend to integrate JASSM they just bought JSOW off the shelf. That means the only weapons which can be interchanged between platforms are AIM-120C, Harpoon, JDAMS/Paveways (which are essentially kits) and irons.

    Though, the Australian plan was to sell them to the USN once F-35 was available. For what is seen as an interim aircraft, it was easier to just keep them in stock Navy configuration. If they decide to keep them, you might see integration of other weapons.

    in reply to: Global list of all flat tops in service #1996467
    benroethig
    Participant

    Pity she’s not gonna be called “Lexington”.

    -77 was actually going to be Lex instead of Bush sr.. Unfortunately the politicians have their hooks in to deep and are all too willing to honor themselves.

Viewing 15 posts - 121 through 135 (of 486 total)