Lots of things fall into that category. Glove vanes on the F-14 come to mind. “Turkey feathers” on the F-15 and B-1B are another. Internal bay on the F-105, Vulcan tailgun on the B-52, etc. etc. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Several B-52’s recorded MiG kills in the Vietnam conflict, but I think they were with quad .50’s.
LM has been squawking 60m (in current dollars or base dollars?) a pop for several months now. It is not entirely clear what the 60m will buy, although my guess is it is some flavor of flyaway price. A flyaway price is for the base jet, and doesn’t include training systems (sims, etc.,) support equipment, spares, infrastructure upgrades or new construction to support the aircraft. US estimates reflect these additional costs as well as R&D and T&E – hence the glaring price difference that an ally might pay vs. what the US taxpayer will eventually fork over.
F-35B goes supersonic
Several days ago, the F-35B went supersonic for the first time near PAX. Did about 1.1 mach.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2010/s2929031.htm
TOM BURBAGE: Well, Australia’s buying the [14 f-35] with 2014, 2015 deliveries and then on out for a number of years beyond that. So the [100] will be bought on an annual basis initially so the cost in each year will be slightly different and will go down with time.The version that the Australian Air Force is buying is the least expensive of the three and in today’s dollars it looks like it will be right around us$60 million.
Maybe the US should reimport F-35A’s from Australia…
That Tomcat 2 impression looks awesome 🙂
The F-14D was close to 20 tons and I guess every proposed design would have grown by a few tons. Whats the maximum take-off and landing weight for a US carrier?
Max trap weight is specific to each aircraft, having more to do more with the ability to go around after a bolter than structural limits. I’m not sure what the carrier itself could handle, but I don’t think that that would be a practical limitation with Nimitz/Ford CVN’s. EMALS is supposed to deliver 29% more energy than the current steam cats, and a more controllable stroke. And the cross deck pendants could be modified / upgraded to handle increased weights if necessary.
The “active” in “active cancellation” implies it should be detectable.
Apparently there is some interesting work being done in the area. I read an interview with an Air Force general that was being vague about some upcoming generation of stealth tech. Extremely narrow beam jamming? Precise placement of false targets? Modifying returned radar energy? The value would be the ability of optimizing the airframe for performance and efficiency while enhancing stealth. Can’t find the article though.
Yes, wide engine placment=Higher lift from the Airframe body itself, and possible more space for fuel.
But i think he meant that an aircraft with wide engine placement=more space wasted onboard a carrier..
Thanks
Adverse yaw after engine failure at high alpha – makes for some tricky handling issues for a especially for carrier aircraft.
Tomcat 21 equipped with Thales Spectra (active cancellation) 😀
Love the tomkitty, but the airframe is old, and the engines are set too far apart – but active cancellation / waveform shaping and management is the future of stealth technology .
I wouldn’t mind a link to the master’s thesis by a Marine pilot
who advocated a 2-crew F-35 for their FAC(A) requirement at all.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA500611
I really should call it a paper rather than a master’s thesis. But it looks like it was written for some requirement in conjunction with post-graduate coursework.
There is earlier paper published by a Marine suggesting a buy of F/A-18F’s as FAC(A)’s for much of the same reasons.
Sure they could but that would result in a supercruising monster or the F119 doesn’t make sense. 😉
Let’s take the F-22 as starting point, which has maybe a 550-600nm radius. So you obviously would want to increase that way beyond the 35s 700-750nm. Doing that adds a lot of weight. Plus carrier capability, second cockpit, and high lift devices to bring down approach speed all adds up. My guess is you’d quickly become too heavy/big for naval use.
What’s wrong with a supercruising monster?
I suppose you could the latest and greatest F110-132’s, but they produce ~ 3,000lbs less thrust and weigh ~500lbs more than the F119 – and as you say weight is an issue for naval aircraft.
I’d want to stay about the size of an F-14, which is larger than a F-22. The proposed F-22N was deemed impractical due to high wing loading and gross weight. However, a new design could optimized from the start for CV operations. You could use a variable sweep wing like the F-14, or a large wing more like the F-35C to obtain the desired approach speed.
A few weeks ago I ran across a master’s thesis by a Marine pilot who advocated a 2-crew F-35 for their FAC(A) requirement. He makes a strong argument for 2-crewman concept in general. I maintain it is absolute requirement for strike aircraft for both current (designating targets and guiding PGM’s) and future (managing UCAV’s) requirements.
Yeah, those would be interesting numbers. But I can’t imagine that the SH suffers noticable more engine failures compared to land based fighters. So numbers for single engined land based jets shouldn’t be too far off for the F-35C too.
“Approach,” (a naval aviation safety magazine) has published a number of stories about engine failures, accessory failures, precautionary shutdowns, etc. from the viewpoint of the aircrew. Interesting reading. And anecdotally, they do happen with some frequency. Whether or not they happen more frequently to maritime aircraft is the data I’d be interested to see.
Unless the program is certified by the DoD as essential to national security, and no other option exists. Lots of wiggle room under the law.
Here’s the context of the price.
http://f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-14116-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-15.html
The 92.4m figure is for AUPC, or Average Unit Procurement Cost, stated in BY$2002 (133.1m stated in TY$ – which accounts for inflation over the life of the acquisition program.) This figure is somewhat lower than Program Acquisition Unit Cost of 112.3m in BY$2002 (155.6m in TY$.) A foreign (non-US) customer pays the URF price – which I have yet to see on an official document contemporary with these figures.
Source: D,CAPE, 01JUN2010
Definitions: Average Procurement Unit Cost (APUC) = total procurement dollars (in program base year dollars)/total procurement quantity.
PAUC (program acquisition unit cost) as the program acquisition cost divided by quantity. Program Acquisition Cost consists of Development Costs, Procurement Costs, and any construction costs that are in direct support of the defense acquisition program
Source: Defense Acquisition University.