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Nicolas10

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  • Nicolas10
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    Thanks for the info sens. Is M.95 a clean figure as for the Tornado, or is can it achieve it with some loadout?

    Nic

    Nicolas10
    Participant

    To be fair, for the range data the 2k has two 1700l external tanks, which severly limits it’s weapon load (let’s say it would carry two LGB on the underside rack, one Damoclès pod, two 1700/2000l tanks and two Magic II). While at the same time, the Tornado figure is quoted for a heavy loaded plane. One could say 2 LGB isn’t a very heavy load, but in a regular strike mission I would say it’s enough.

    I didn’t know the Armat was not in service anymore, and to be honest, I am quite perplex at the inability of the Mirage 2000D to carry out SEAD missions. I have read that the AdlA was thinking about implementing SEAD capabilities, but I haven’t read anything about it. As for the Exocet, I said the M2k could be made carrying it on purpose, not to give the false idea that it was carried as is.
    When it comes to weapon I think that the Storm Shadow isn’t the same thing as the Apache. I think the Storm Shadow is the exact equivalent of the Scalp EG, which is different from the Apache.

    Lastly, I think all the goodies are present on both the tornado and the M2k. I have read that the delta configuration made the M2k a very stable platform for low alt flight, and that the delta had the advantage of being quite robust. But here I will admit that I don’t have a clue which of the two planes would fare better at low alt flying. I will also have to admit that I have no clue which of the defensive suite between the M2k and the Tornado works better. I’m pretty confident in the M2k’s suite, but that’s probably national bias, and the fact that the M2k looks awesome 😀

    Nic

    Nicolas10
    Participant

    Agreed when it comes to the Tornado shot down over Iraq, I agree that Mirages would have been shot down the same way. However, I had also read that Italian Tonados were forced to cancel a mission due to bad weather. However, since there was no contemporary attack M2k, a comparison isn’t really possible.

    Nic

    Nicolas10
    Participant

    It was probably not a Mirage 2000D as the type entered service only in 1995. It was probably a Mirage 2000N k2, as the k1 could only carry the ASMP nuclear missile. The K2 was a standard that incorporated the delivery of dumb ammunition, or LGB, but only if they are designated by another airplane or ground forces.

    Nic

    Nicolas10
    Participant

    First of all thanks for the info on the Tornado. I know a Mirage was downed over former Yugoslavia, but I wasn’t sure which type it was.

    Well now, for straters I don’t agree with the weapons choice being an advantage of the Tornado.
    the M2k can carry “all major dumb munitions, such as iron bombs, Belouga cluster bombs, Durandal runway breaker bombs, BAP 100 and BAP 120 clusters, Matra 68 millimeter rocket pods, and cannon pods.”
    The M2k can carry a wide range of laser guided weapons, like the US and French LGB (yes paveways too…), and AS30L laser guided missile, selfdesignating the target with ATLIS or PDLCTS pods.
    It can fire the ARMAT anti radar missile (here I’d add that with it’s latest defensive suite, the M2k is ELINT capable as all signals can be recorded and analysed after the mission is over).
    It can fire the Exocet anti ship missile, with the addition of a few radar mods (read it’s not in service with the Adl’A, but it’s a possibility for export versions if needed).
    The latest versions of the M2KD (R2), can carry the Apache and Scalp EG (Storm Shadow?) missiles, as well as the future AASM (modular air to ground armamaent) GPS quided bombs, which has been test fired already (and one thermal imaging aided version)).
    I think that’s not too shabby even if the weapon load isn’t quite that of the Tornado. I agree about the lack of a gun though, but a twin 30mm gun pod can be carried if the 2000D is ever needed in the CAS role. I doubt this would be likely to happen however, but hey… it can carry nukes :diablo:

    Considering the Speed, I am not so sure that the Tornado is faster than the M2kD. M2kD max speed is Mach 1.4, Tornado GR4 max speed is 1.3. Not much of a difference there, but it will mostly come down to drag in my opinion. And more weapons will necessarily mean more drag :p

    Avionics-wise, lets have a little summary:
    – Fly-by-wire system, 2 inertial navigation systems, Thomson-CSF Antilope 5 terrain following radar, Icare digital map, integrated GPS, fully integrated countermeasures suite, laser designation pod with thermal camera (PDL-CT)
    I think it’s on par with anything the Tornado has, except maybe for a smaller radar antenna. However, since it’s no AtoA radar, I’m not sure it is a big issue at all. Also, adding to the Short size of the Mirage, and it’s delta wing, efforts have been made to further reduce it’s RCS, as evidenced by the gold layer on the cockpit. I would say that it is a good advantage compared to the bulkier swing wing tornado.

    No argument when it comes to range, according to some sites :
    Tornado: Radius of action: 1390 km (750 NM) with heavy load, hi-lo-lo-hi
    Mirage 2000: 1,000 nm (1,850 km) w/2 1,700-liter drop tanks
    That said, the M2kD carries less fuel than the single seaters, and I’m not sure whether this data comes for single a two seater variants. However, special 2000l fuel tanks were created for the 2kN and 2kD to further increase range.

    Nic

    in reply to: Why the Rafale? #2648449
    Nicolas10
    Participant

    Nevermind my question was already answered. Sorry.

    Nicolas10
    Participant

    Hello, my name is Nicolas and this is my first post on this forum.

    So, I’m sorry to wake up an old thread, but I was wondering why everyone seems to prefer the Tornado Gr.4 for a deep strike mission compared to a Mirage 2000D. I have done a lot of reading about the Mirage 2000D, because it is one of my favourite plane (I even like it better than the single seat fighter version).

    I must admit, however, that I don’t know much at all about the Tornado, except that it has a pretty poor record in the first Iraq war, while it is my understanding that the M2k had the best precision ratio of all coalition aircrafts in the yugoslavian campaign. I don’t know how it fared in the afghanistan campaign however.

    Would anyone be kind enough to supply info that would support a Tornado superiority compared to the M2kD?

    (here’s some info detailing the specifics of the M2kD variant)
    http://www.vectorsite.net/avmir2k.html#m5

    Nicolas

Viewing 7 posts - 4,141 through 4,147 (of 4,147 total)