LightndatticHow long ago was this?
I believe there are some A-37’s in private use as warbirds. Was there an airshow when you saw it perhaps? To my knowledge, the A-37 was phased out of the USAF in the early 90’s. It’s last combat in USAF hands was during Operation Just Cause, i.e. Panama. I’m not sure if they went to Grenada or not.
It was early 90’s, but it wasn’t part of an airshow. Barksdale only had 2 airshows/open display times…. The first was the base’s open house in April, the second was during Proud Shield (Bomb-Nav competition) in October.
LightndatticThat clarifies a few things. Yes the purpose of the laser is not to guide the weapon but to measure the distance to the target to tell the missile when to explode. I also do not see how a paint could absorbs a laser so I am sceptical that the F-22 has this.
Even if true, I think the IRST system’s computer should be able to guess the distance to the target although this would not be as accurate as using a laser rangefinder.
Anyone know the range of a modern IRST system? I think they already have better ranges than radars used on 2nd generation aircraft, ie Mig-21s.
Modern A-A missles don’t need to be told when to explode. Their proximity fuses can tell when thye’ve closed as much as they can, then it detonates the warhead. The only thing a modern fighter needs range info for is for lead-computing gunsights and to tell if an opponent is within his missle’s ranges. For the most part, if you can see an enemy using IRST (especially if the atmosphere isn’t clear and dry) then you’re already within most weapon’s ranges- again this is even more true of the Russian’s longer ranged R missles.
LightndatticSeeing as there are no F-4’s left in U.S. service aside from the QF-4’s I guess I can’t really participate. Can I pretend like I’m from another country. The stuff the USAF has kinda bores me to be honest.
Too true at this point in time. I’d like to see the T-birds branch out to display all the aircraft in service with the USAF, not just the F-16. Imagine replacing the 2 solos with F-15’s, or in the future, take 2 of the non-combat coded developmental F-22s to complement 4 (or more- Snowbirds style!) F-35A’s, 2 USAF F-35B’s for a VSTOL performance and a C-17 in red white and blue to haul everything around. Same for the USN- 4 F-35C’s with 2 F-18E/F’s.
I guess that’s why I’m so pumped to see the Snowbirds in Ft Worth this September. I haven’t seen them in 20+ years.
LightndatticThe A-37 is not actually a T-37 conversion, even though the designation would have you believe that.
During the 1960’s the USAF realized a need for a dedicated COIN/CAS aircraft, and the ideal platform was thought to be the T-37. The prototype was designed YAT-37D, and several changes were implemented. The airframe was strengthened, and armor plating was added in some areas. The ejection seats, oddly enough, were removed (perhaps to save weight?), the aircraft was given wingtip tanks (which are available on the export T-37C) as well as four hardpoints under each wing, the inner four being plumbed for carriage of fuel tanks. Additionally, the Continental J-69 turbojets were replaced with non-afterburning versions of the General Electric J-85 used in the T-38 and F-5, hence the reason for the much louder/stronger sound you heard. The aircraft was also given a GAU-2B/A 7.62-mm minigun with 1,500 rounds fitted in the nose. This weapons have proved to be very effective in the counter-narcotics mission, where A-37’s of many Latin American nations are credited with many air-to-air kills on drug running aircraft. The A-37A was deemed good, but not quite what the Air Force was looking for so improvements were added, including the addition of an inflight refuelling probe, to produce the definitive A-37B model, which was widely export, namely to many Central and South American nations, most of which still operate the aptly named Dragonfly. South Korea also still operates the aircraft in the CAS/COIN role, although they will eventually be replaced with the T/A-50 LIFT aircraft.
The A-37 can be equipped with a variety of weapons, including gun pods and cannon pods of 7.62-mm, 12.7-mm, and 20-mm, as well as bombs of 250, 500, and 750-lb. sizes both low and high-drag, general purpose, and cluster types. Rocket pods of 70-mm and 127-mm can be carried as well as napalm (when it was still used that is). The AIM-9 Sidewinder can be carried on the four outboard-most hardpoints, but I don’t think this weapon was ever carried operationally (there is a rare picture of an A-37 fitted with AIM-9’s though if you can find it). The GBU-12 500-lb. Paveway laser-guided muntion was also cleared for the A-37 while in USAF service, although the aircraft doesn’t have a laser designator so it would have to work in conjunction with ground or air-based laser designators.
Sorry for the long speel on the Dragonfly, but it’s one of my favorite airplanes. In short, you can’t convert an A-37 to a T-37, or at least that’s not the way it was done. Many are still in service around the world though.
No problem… I can talk about stuff like this all day. I’m just more confused as to who the dragonfly I saw belongs to. It doesn’t sound like there are any left in USAF service, but I know what I saw and it seemed to have the full run of the airspace over Barksdale when it did come out to play.
LightndatticBasically, a F-22 avoids this situation by not falling into the detection range/azimuth of an IRST in the first place. With offboard sensors and it’s datalinking, a typical F-22 pilot knows where an enemy aircraft is long before say a SU-27 will pick it up via IRST. It then maneuvers away from the Sukhoi. An F-117 and B-2 and even the losing YF-23 have takes measures to lessen their IR signature by burying their engines, routing the exhaust through troughs to mix with the outside airflow before leaving the background heat of the aircraft’s skin and in the case of the F-117, the vertical tails were specifically shaped to help shield the exhaust from above and behind.
Not all fighters in service today have IRST. Remember- stealth is not just about lessening radar signature. There’s IR, Acoustic, Passive EM, and Laser/visible light signatures to reduce too.
Any anti-laser countermeasures generally will only prevent the attacking aircraft from getting accurate range info (and potentially guiding the weapon although laser guided A-A weapons are not currently in service). If the IRST equipped aircraft has detected a stealth target and put himself in position to need range info for a shot, then chances are he’s within lethal range of an IR missle, esp. the longer range russian weapons. If he’s smart he approaches as close as he can from the rear and either waits for his missle itself to acquire or fires in a boresight mode and lets it lock on after launch.
The problem with fighting a stealthy opponent is he typically will find you first and put you on the defensive before you can acquire him with just your IRST.
LightndatticI can even see it as an F-15 passing overhead in a left bank, but I too think it’s the JH-7. The extended tailplanes at first made me thing 15 or Mig-29.
LightndatticARH missles can’t re-aquire a target once it misses. Either it misses by a large margin and flies off to never never land (or harmlessly self destructs when it realizes it’s not tracking a target) or if it passes close enough to it’s target, the proximity fuse will detonate it.
LightndatticEverything I’ve seen has said the Forger was mediocre at best.
LightndatticIts a slow, fat freakin cargo aircraft with guns.
Try convincing the thousands of Iraqis and insurgents who’ve seen their firepower brought to bear.
Or how about the thousands of NVA regulars and VC troops who saw not only the firepower of the AC-130, but of the AC-119, and AC-47.
Ja, I like your mention of the A-37. I think that’s a rather nifty airplane, and could be used in that role to some extent. I think an upgraded A-37 with weapons like Hellfire or GBU-12 would be a great tank plinker, and fairly low on cost. Fitted with low-cost defensive aides (chaff/flare, and ECM), the A-37’s superb agility would up its survivability a lot I think. Sure it’s no A-10, but useful nonetheless.
Phantom, Any idea how easy or hard it is to convert a T-37 to an A-37? I ask because when I was living @ Barksdale AFB, LA there were several tweets there for training/proficiency in the standard white/navy blue paint scheme, but every now and then I would see an A-37 with tanks and refueling probe, etc. flying around (seemed to be a much louder/angrier sound than the standard tweet) and doing much more radical maneuvers than I’ve sever seen the trainer doing while wearing an olive drab or europe 1 paint scheme. I scoured every inch of that base I could as a dependent and asked around, but nobody knew what the hell I was talking about.
LightndatticThis scenario (provided there’s nothing greater than a ZSU-23-4 or equivilent protecting the attacking brigade) is the AC-130’s ‘raison d’etre’. It’s perfectly suited to the task- heavy firepower, LONG loiter time, lots of weapons, high accuracy. Truely a flying battleship. It just needs someone to take care of any air defenses- say a couple of F-16CJ’s or A-10s.
Lightndattic> SteveO
> Crap scene= B-2 launching cruise missile at Independence Day alien
> ship within visual range.
You are correct, why weren’t the missiles launched at a higher altitude where they could attack the alien space ship from above and prevent any blast effect going downward.
Adrian
For that matter, why use a missle at all? I’d think B-2 with a 1MT B-83 nuclear bomb ought to be able to hit something the size of a large city without any problems. I would have liked to see a string of ICBMs dumped on one of those ships until it dropped. Say 1 warhead every 30 seconds until the ship just dropped.
LightndatticI picked up “The Day After” off the clearance rack the other day and watched it. It’s not really an ‘Aviation Movie’, but it does have some of the most realistic SAC alert/scramble scenes I’ve ever seen. Actually, all the military portrayal in that movie was very accurate, from the mad dash out to bombers after the klaxon goes off to the crew inside the Looking Glass aircraft and in the silos.
LightndatticIt was designed to be a nuclear bomber, but since the nuclear weapon was ejected out the back of the plane, it would coast along in the slipstream for possibly miles making accurate delivery impossible. Still a beautiful aircraft.
LightndatticYou’re thinking of “Fire Birds,” also with Tommy Lee Jones and Sean Young.
Also known for the classic scene in which Sean Young’s character removes the Stinger AAM assembly from the downed Apache’s wingtip, converts it into the shoulder-launched version, and with Jones’ advice (“shoot him in the ass”), dispatches the strafing Draken.
That was the best scene in the movie. 😎
Lightndattica fun movie is “hot shots” which does a funny take on Top Gun. I like where
they cook a sausage in the flames of the tailpipe. didnt they do one on Rambo
also ?
Yes, Hot shots Part Deux.
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