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Flying_Pencil

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July 16, 2013 at 11:27 pm in reply to: Take care what you wish for young Sky Gods #393437

Flying_Pencil
Participant

Nice, but I would call it “L’oiseau à la Terre” 😀

(starts to hum the Avignon song)

July 16, 2013 at 11:24 pm in reply to: Aircraft and Airfield vandalism again, except they have caught this t**# #393442

Flying_Pencil
Participant

Most defiantly, someone needs to call the town and press the safety issue.

On top of that, the council needs to start an annual “Open house” at the AF for the locals and visitors, get to know the aircraft and people, and nicely point out the fact the airport was there decades before they moved in.

“Open house” events can not only bring good will, but also a tidy sum if done smartly.

July 10, 2013 at 8:34 pm in reply to: Take care what you wish for young Sky Gods #393590

Flying_Pencil
Participant

2) My RV, sat on the ramp, has a flat tyre.

I would much, make that MUCH rather be stuck at some airport in miserable conditions with a flat tire (or tyre in your case?) on a less hospitable airfield when its on MY airplane.

OTOH, maybe i will open up a coffee shop on said AF name make it comfortable for those who do? 😀

June 26, 2013 at 3:58 pm in reply to: Goodwin Sands Dornier progress thread #948460

Flying_Pencil
Participant

Fantastic Pics. I have asked the question on the BBMF Facebook page as to have you located the Aircraft ID Plate yet. That’s of course if it hasn’t already corroded away.

Unfortunately I do not know the location of the main data plate.

I know exactly where it is on a Ju-88, but not 17.
Just a note, the location on the 88 is lower nose, designed to be obliterated on belly landing and thus render ID difficult. I can only assume the same for 17.

As the pictures show, the cockpit area is basically empty of everything, and likely the data plate.

June 24, 2013 at 9:59 pm in reply to: Goodwin Sands Dornier progress thread #949823

Flying_Pencil
Participant

Another new official photo from RAFM

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151418758776533&set=a.447151031532.241175.19869991532&type=1&theater

Interesting..

First off, my Norwegian friend, the same one Ian mentioned, found that steel parts survive very well in salt water, becuase they are the dominant metal vs the aluminum and magnesium (thus are sacrificed, act as anode).

[ATTACH=CONFIG]217998[/ATTACH]

Far end looks to be a chain sprocket.

Off hand it looks to be part of the flap system, but need to dig in manuals to find for sure.
Could be for bomb bay, again, look in manuals.

Thing is, the oxidized mass around it was the housing for the gears.

June 24, 2013 at 9:20 pm in reply to: Goodwin Sands Dornier progress thread #949951

Flying_Pencil
Participant

The item in piccy 3: FL 50550 – part of the armourment equipment?

It’s bomb rack.
Line above it:
Trag 5 Schloß 50/X (“ß” pronounced “sss”)
5 rounds 50Kg (let me see if I can find correct translation)
I believe the 50/X is specific to max load (50Kg) on each shackle.

Trag (abbreviation for Trager) = rack/carrier (thanks James D!!)
Schloß = Clasp, Padlock, Bolt, (and Castle, Chateau, Manor)

Shortened name could effectively mean
“Carrier for 5 Clasps (shackles) for 50 Kg loads”

Do-17 had 4 of these.
They also had “EHVC 500/V III” for a center-line load. Yes, could carry 500kg load.

June 24, 2013 at 8:50 pm in reply to: On this day 19 years ago… B52 crash! #949969

Flying_Pencil
Participant

Whole crash is on YouTube- amazing, scary!

Nothing amazing about it.
Just stupid.

June 24, 2013 at 8:46 pm in reply to: 1:30 of this epic film may unsettle some forum members! #949972

Flying_Pencil
Participant

Most attention that airplane had in decades!

(what is it now? remember seeing topic on it and others here)

June 19, 2013 at 8:00 pm in reply to: Goodwin Sands Dornier progress thread #955059

Flying_Pencil
Participant

Mark -its interesting reading but it doesn’t move away from the fact that to preserve effectively the Dornier it needs to come apart. The engines have large numbers of ferrous components inside which will continue to rot. On top of that there are large undercarriage components and a myriad of fixtures and fittings which are also steel and will rust . The aircraft is not a simple structure – it needs dismantling and treatment.

It looks like the structure has enough holes in it to allow a good wash (with help from occasional spray wand).
A good bit of engine seems to have dissolved.

I am guessing, but not much is left to dismantle.

June 19, 2013 at 7:56 pm in reply to: Goodwin Sands Dornier progress thread #955062

Flying_Pencil
Participant

[ATTACH=CONFIG]217753[/ATTACH]

What are they proposing to do with all the ‘bits’!?

I’m bringing over a big tub of Elmers glue! 😀

June 19, 2013 at 5:59 pm in reply to: Goodwin Sands Dornier progress thread #955426

Flying_Pencil
Participant

Some images posted in WIX by Cking
(Looks good!)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]217753[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]217754[/ATTACH]

June 19, 2013 at 3:45 pm in reply to: Goodwin Sands Dornier progress thread #955439

Flying_Pencil
Participant

This is where the lack of value in the Do-17 seems to arise, some people seem to expect or assume the outcome is a restored and camoflauged aircraft on its wheels with the look its props are ready to spin and to have the appearance of being capable of flight – where as – like the hurri-wreck and the Gladiator, and even the Halifax, this Do-17 will at best remain a conserved wreck – recognisable as the wreck of a Do-17, but still a wreck.

But that’s its “truth”, it is the wreck of a combat veteran of the BoB, as found some 70 years after the event, and the sole survivor of the type.

…

But its “real”, its provenance is beyond dispute – It was “there”.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

Agree Mark.

As much as I would love to see it on its wheels, might as well build a new one from scratch then restore this one.
perhaps it will be the inspiration to do such?

I am very glad at least one is now visible to anyone.

I’m all for displaying things ‘as found’, take Duxford’s Bf109 for example (though, let’s not digress on the half restored look). But when it comes to highly risky and expensive operations to recover stuff out of the sea, I think a lot more has to be taken into consideration.

Step at a time, IMHO.
It’s out, it’s being preserved, it’s (as said), an inspiration for others.

June 19, 2013 at 3:35 pm in reply to: Goodwin Sands Dornier progress thread #955441

Flying_Pencil
Participant

I ask would anyone want to keep and display a Taliban IED to show what sort of weapon blew someones loved one to pieces? Thats what I think of that Dornier and all axis aircraft! Just my opinion I don’t expect you to share it. Allied aircraft are a different thing they destroyed evil regimes in Germany and Japan and I hope they are preserved and commerorated along with those who died for our freedom. Without their ultimate sacrifice I would probably not be able to write this.

Your logic by extension means ALL Germans are Nzi’s and they still are Nzi’s becuase time does not change anything.

To only preserve the material for one side is like cheating on an exam because all the answers are obvious.
Or like having a government run by one political party.

Like it or not, even the worst, more atrocious events in history are group events (either opponents or aggressive/victims). We can’t choose to be selective of history, we must preserve it all, remember how difficult the struggle was, otherwise the next generation will be lulled into thinking it was just a game of skittles. (long since I lived in UK, still remember it)

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” -George Santayana

June 19, 2013 at 3:07 pm in reply to: Goodwin Sands Dornier progress thread #955550

Flying_Pencil
Participant

Came across this interesting picture of a Do17 on wetlands on the Sussex coast, after a belly landing an what appears to be soft mud/sand. It would seem it has suffered a serious amount of damage and is in much worse condition then ‘our’ 17.
I believe this may indicate that the water landing of our aircraft is much more likely than the suggested Goodwin sand ‘then flipped over’ scenario suggested by others.

I too have discounted the “flip over” scenario.

I personally own and have seen over a hundred 17 belly landing pictures, and a large majority show the back breaking just like above.

I told the RAFM of this weak point, and their ideal plan did plan for it, but their backup plan was not as good, thus its broken back.

June 19, 2013 at 12:05 am in reply to: Goodwin Sands Dornier progress thread #955951

Flying_Pencil
Participant

Someone on another board asked

Chemically, what does the lemon juice do? Does it merely leach the salts out or does it render the salt chemically inactive in some fashion?

I did a little digging on ocean salt water.

Ocean water is a little “Basic” (aka Alkali) due to presence of ions, Mg+2, (SO4)-2 and others.

Seawater pH is limited to the range 7.5 to 8.4.

On a pH scale, 7 is neutral, with 0 the most acidic and 14 the most basic. The historical pH of sea water is about 8.16, leaning on the basic side of the scale. While it doesn’t seem like this is a problem, the pH of our oceans has fallen to 8.05 since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, a change greater in magnitude than any time in the 650,000 years before the Industrial Revolution. The pH scale is also logarithmic, so that slight change in pH results in a 30 percent increase in acidity.

Some reading here
http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090628062655AA970He

SO, a weak acid is needed to neutralize the basic sea water, and the salt free water washes away the salts.
Citric is very common and environmentally safe, my guess on the choice of that.

It is likely other benefits, up to RAFM to say.

FWIW
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