Confirms only Bell 412 deliveries and not the others.

Claims of quantitative parity are nothing but sophomores. Firstly, let’s stick to the current orbat because no one included the 125+50(-~30 already delivered) Dhruv on order for the IA and IAF, additional Mi-17-IVs, the LCH, a new LOH type being evaluated and the new heavy chopper. Additionally, the PA is mostly likely to be replacing rather than supplementing, given the age of some of the fleet, should we give ‘probable’ orders any attention.

Secondly, you cannot have 100 Microlights as a sign of parity with a force of 100 combat aircraft. The disparity between the Ultra Heavy ( Mi-26: -, 10:0), Medium/Heavy ( Mi-17 and Mi-8 : Mi-17, UH-1H and SA-330J, 3:1 or 1.4 : 1 counting only Mi-17s of former ), Medium ( Mi-25/35 with troop carrying capability, Chetak, Dhruv : Bell 206B Jet Ranger, SA-316B, AH-1, 2.8 : 1) and Light ( Cheetah, Lancer : Bell 47G, Llama,Hughes 300C, 4.6 : 1 ) helicopter fleets of both sides, is painfully clear. The IA/IAF list mostly does’nt include reserves either. Ergo, comparison is just plain silly.

The Arjun’s top speed is 70-72 km/h. The NORINCO MBT-2000’s maximum speed in 4th gear is 62.3 km/h.

Harry
what part of this cant you understand?

“The army is poised to spend almost $300 million over five years on its new 407 and 412 fleets and enhancements to its Cobra fleet. Sources say the army also has floated a requirement for additional attack and utility helicopters capable of operating at relatively high altitudes, perhaps funded by the additional $150 million. “

Secondly, MBT-2000 has a different engine to Al Khalid and different speed set! You are comapring two different tanks

a force with less than 10 functioning fixed wing transports cannot be more mobile than someone with 150 deployed into same area of ops.

On-the-book ownership of helis is a trivial detail, IAF has no use
for the Mi17/A3/llama other than supporting IA which it does day and night as a matter of routine. As I showed in my earlier posts,
the ratio of troopers:helis is about the same after not considering
any PAF attrition from the list in Pakistandefence.com (Steve’s post tends to confirm that list is just total delivered not current fleet)

Once the Bells/UH1 arrive a lot of the older helos are likely to go if
not already done so, so PA inventory is likely to remain the same.

the PA doctrine as it stands today (outlined above) is a defensive
attrition warfare oriented to not conceding large swathes of territory. Its not something that needs high degrees of mobility to work. more mobility => higher cost, something which PA probably cannot afford on such a large scale.

Indian
Like some of your other posts (unfortunately) and please dont take offence, but you understanding of Pakistani Army doctrine is very flawed.

Pakistan Army has been investing in higher mobility for th epast 20 years (often to the cost of the Navy and Air Force) as the army gets the lions share of the defence budget.

Pakistan Army doctrine in event of a war with India relys on a strategy called “Riposte”.

This means accepting limited Indian gains on one front (as you partly pointed out) but then outflanking the Indian advance and taking the battle into Indian territory (in past war games this has usually been considered to be North Punjab).

For this strategy, a HIGH LEVEL of mobility is required.

Hence battle groups consisting of T-80/Al Khalids, MII3A5s, M109s, AH-1s and supporting groups will be used to outflank, surround and then destroy any Indian advance while at the same time capturing territory (to be occupied by follow up Infantry units) to barter during any ceasefire…..

Has anyone got concrete confirmation that the 40 Bell 407s are still expected to be delivered to Pakistan?

The only “reputable” written source I’ve seen on this subject recently suggested that the 26 Bell 412EP choppers were procured instead as they were considered more suitable for requirements.

I won’t bore you with the details, but it quickly became obvious that a large order for the 412EPs was being filled…but that same evidence certainly isn’t apparent for the 40 Bell 407s so far.

Best regards

Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

Hi Steve
Below is this weeks Flight International article stating both 412s and 407s are being procured….
Flight International 10 Aug 2004

Pakistan is to further accelerate the modernisation of its military aircraft fleet, with the USA pledging an additional $150 million in foreign military financing (FMF).

US manufacturers expect the funds, adding to $300 million already promised for fiscal year 2005, could pay for fighter upgrades and additional helicopters. Pakistan is finalising a priority list for US defence equipment using at least $1.65 billion in FMF funds over five years.

Pakistan already has decided on several purchases, including 26 Bell 412s, 40 Bell 407s, 20 used Bell AH-1 Cobras and six used Lockheed Martin C-130Bs. Deliveries of the Bell 412s began last month and work on refurbishing C-130Bs is under way.

But industry sources say Pakistan has not yet issued a letter of request for a proposed mid-life upgrade of 18 Lockheed Martin F-16A/Bs. Sources say Pakistan should decide on a configuration within the next several weeks, launching the licensing process.

The air force is spending about $75 million on the C-130s, leaving another $75 million for F-16 upgrades in the forthcoming year. Pakistan is also considering acquiring additional used F-16A/Bs and possibly new-generation F-16s.

The army is poised to spend almost $300 million over five years on its new 407 and 412 fleets and enhancements to its Cobra fleet. Sources say the army also has floated a requirement for additional attack and utility helicopters capable of operating at relatively high altitudes, perhaps funded by the additional $150 million.

Enstrom and Schweizer also expect a requirement for additional army and air force training helicopters. The navy is considering a purchase of six additional Lockheed Martin P-3C Orions. The US Navy is retiring about 80 P-3Cs over the next two years

Perhaps it should be considered that the IAF has a huge transport fleet which is more or less in support of the IA. Counting IA chopper assets seperately doesnt really make sense as the IAF and IA are an integrated force as highlighted by the recent excercises.

Also there is always advange in numbers. Even though it may be claimed that PA has an equal/better per soldier ratio there are still more number of soldiers PA has to deal with.

The point was that with increasing helicopter and APC assets PA can be more flexible and mobile in countering larger enemy numbers, the future looks more and more like a highly mobile small PA force fighting a much larger but more static Indian army

Interesting topic!
Any other fighters that operate/share with major airports!

Islamabad International still operates a flight of F-7Ps on Air Defence alert I think, they have a seperate ramp for civilian airliners and the airport is home to all of teh PAF C-130 fleet

Pakistan’s nuclear assets are guarded by air capping done by F-16s but due to non-availability of spares Pakistan had to cut down flying hours of its F-16s.

Interesting.

F-16 spares are back to pre embargoes levels, so this news is either old or BS!

This is according to Flight International and AFM

pre-positioning of formations very close to their deployment area
is not good for operational flexibility. It transmits the intentions very clearly who is earmarked for what sector.

If the formations were say located behind the Indus, they could
relocate on the west bank and reappear hundreds of km away
fairly safe from real-time opfor intel knowing about it.

But anyway, I guess the intent is a defensive stalemate so it doesnt really matter.

Thats correct, and in the process you have just answered your own question on why Pakistan does not need a large air transport fleet…….