http://www.washtimes.com/world/20041020-100008-9730r.htm

Quote:
India opposes sale of F-16 jets
By Tom Carter
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published October 21, 2004

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India is concerned about reports of a renewed Pakistani effort to buy F-16 fighter jets from the United States, saying the advanced aircraft could spark an arms race in South Asia even though Washington maintains that no such sales are being contemplated.
“We are against introducing such advanced weaponry into South Asia,” an Indian government official said Tuesday on the condition of anonymity. “They are not useful in the war on terror, and experience has shown that they could be used against India. … They could spark a buildup or a weapons race in the region.”
In September, the Pakistani press carried a statement by a Pakistani defense official saying the United States had agreed to consider selling the nation F-16s fighter jets.
Last week, Rear Adm. Craig McDonald, head of the office of the U.S. defense representative in Pakistan, was quoted in press reports as telling a Pentagon-organized conference on security cooperation that the Bush administration would go before Congress early next year to seek authorization for the sale.
“It’s a very long, involved process that will be taken up with our Congress once they come back after the first of the year,” he was quoted by Reuters news agency as saying.
Participants in a six-day U.S.-India forum sponsored by the Aspen Institute and the Confederation of Indian Industry that ended Tuesday said they told Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld that such a sale, while manageable for the Indian military, would be taken badly by the Indian public.
Mr. Rumsfeld did not comment on the prospects of the sale of the F-16s at the meeting Monday, the participants said. But a retired senior Indian military officer said he understood the plan called for an initial sale of 18 planes, with another 62 aircraft to be sold later.
The State Department, however, bluntly refuted the idea on Tuesday.
“There has been absolutely no decision taken anywhere, at any level of the U.S. government, on the sale of F-16s to Pakistan,” a department official said on the condition of anonymity.
The official said that the sale of F-16s to Pakistan, along with dozens of other issues relating to U.S.-Pakistan relations, had been on the table for months, but nothing had changed.
“Everyone wants to know if the ball has moved. The ball has not moved,” the official said.
Officials at the Pakistani Embassy did not return repeated calls for comment.
Washington sold 40 F-16s to Pakistan from 1983 through 1987, during the period Pakistan supported the United States in its efforts to drive the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan. But in 1990, Congress passed legislation halting delivery of the jets for fear that Pakistan had built a nuclear bomb.
U.S. concerns over a Pakistani nuclear device proved correct in May 1998 when Pakistan carried out nuclear weapons tests in response to tests by India.
However, since the September 11, 2001, attacks in the United States, Pakistan has re-emerged as a key U.S. ally in the war on terrorism.

“”We are against introducing such advanced weaponry into South Asia,” an Indian government official”

SU-30, Phalcon, M2k-5…….

……….and if the IAF is involved that changes everything. Including the premise of the question as I understand it. If you have IAF top cover, the PAF strike force is in big doo doo. Depending of course on the size and composition of the top cover. That brings us to what somebody touched on earlier. Why bother with the SHAR carrier if you can get 2 dozen Flankers covering the surface force? Also remember thats how the RAF tried to get the Royal Navy’s Fleet Air Arm scrapped. By moving Australia a couple of hundred miles to the west and assuming they could automatically get basing rights. :rolleyes:

Yes, IAF involvment will change the whole equation, and it may well go from being a realistic daring raid to bring down Indias carrier to a suicide mission.

Perhaps a permanent CAP of 2 SU-30s acting as a “mini AWACs” for the Harriers and letting off their BVRAAMs from afar then guiding the Harriers in for the knife fight…..

Goalpost still shifting then I see! 🙂

If you feel you need IAF Flanker top cover your going to need better AEW than a couple of Ka-31’s to direct them. So your going to need a Phalcon hanging around, plus the Midas tanker, a couple of pairs of fighters on rotation i.e a squadron. What do you need the carrier for again if you’ve got cast-iron guarantees that the IAF will always provide this kind of support to the deployed IN fleet!?.

In the scenario were talking about the IAF Su-30 CAP will make a difference, obviously, as the numbers of aircraft up, and their endurance, are that much further reinforced.

Its hardly in keeping with the original title of the thread ‘Harrier vs MirageIII’ is it though! 😀

You finally know what it feels like! 😀

Thats the point I made 2 pages ago!

In my opinion, the IN would, in its present state, require IAF help in order to protect against any PAF attack….

Indian
Right now I think alot of Indian subs and surface assetts maybe be busy hunting the MESMA Agostas (which can, by far, stay submerged much longer then the Indian subs and have the most advanced command systems in the Asia) and have the capability to fire sub launched Exocet, the talk of Indian subs having a “field day” may be premature and indeed may be the case if Pakistani subs choose to target Indian ports (of which there are many) as opposed to the few well defnded Pakistani ports.

Indian assets may be emnployed hunting these subs and defending ports, so not all you sub assets will be available for your “field day” at Karachi……

Sorry, I meant now, actuallky in service, surely you have some radar guided gatling tyoe device?

Guys
Facinating discussion.
Just a few points.

Phil and Seahawk, I think to a degree your both right, there are just too many variables for a definate outcome.

However, as someone pointed out, I cant say who would definately win in a dogfight between the Harriers and F-7s, both planes being good and both sets of pilots professional, but the very act of engaging the Harriers (14 left in the fleet I dont know how many the Indians could put in the air at any one time but lets suggest a minimum of 2 CAP pairs) will go half way to achiving the PN goal of getting the Harriers off teh backs of the Strike Mirages, once that is done, well surely its a case of Mirage/Exocet v patrolling frigates and their air defence?

I dont see AMRAAM equipped Harriers being given to the IN in the near future, but perhaps the MIG-29s will be equipped with BVR missiles? If we go down that road we can also argue that the PAF F-7s will eventually be replaced by SD-10 carrying JF-17s……

You need to fly low (so that the launch is not detected) and are loaded with a high drag payload. But that’s not the point. The significant extra streach to fly, further alienates the strikers from their GCI Radar and puts them into fleet coverage. The low AM-39 range also puts the Mirage within SA-N-17 intercept range.

Anyway, wrt range, I was talking about the Su-30MKI (operating from Loheagon and Jamnagar)

Harry
So you get my point finally? For the IN fleet to get anywhere near a threatening postition to the Pakistan coast (i.e Klub/Brahmos laucnh range) they automatically become Mirage/Exocet targets……

Range of SA-N-17?

That’s not proof at all. That’s just you pathetically dreaming over vague references. Be it an official US doc or not, it in no way, confirms your acquistion of additional P-3Cs. It does’nt even indicate approval by the supplier or of any procedure. I’ll stop here, before you start off more poppycock on F-16s, F-22s et al

May or may not. Don’t see how it relates to your confident assumption that a “significant no.” translates the the “largest” Exocet inventory. 😀

3M54E1 range – 300 km. AM-39 range – 50-70 km (for the block-2, which you may not even have).

I said Mirage range, its our mirages that will be flying over sea and launching the exocets, we wont be luanching them from their crates in Karachi, so you can ad 300 off miles onto the range of the Exocet when its attached to a Mirage! 😉