Alex Crawford’s “Shipbuster” has a brief history of all the Tsetse aircraft – first entry for PZ468 is 3504 SU on 2 November ’44. It didn’t reach 254 Squadron, where it became QM-D, until 21 March ’45.
For the sake of argument, as Graham says, there were a number of YP-R aircraft. 23 was initially over-all black, then went to various incarnations of upper camo and dark undersurfaces, which they kept through to the end of their time in the Med in May ’44. When they resumed operations in Europe in July 44, they had the standard grey/green camo. HR212 flew 83 operational hours as YP-R between 6 July and 11 November ’44.
Oops, I was forgetting the intruders: thinking only of night bombers.
Hi Graham,
First nocturnal bomber air-to-air loss was DZ386 of 139 Sqn, on 20/21 April 1943, shot down by a 110 of 12./NJG 1.
Whether it was as good as that title and others have claimed is open to doubt … Mosquitos were such rare abschusses.
Yes, bear in mind that it’s a list of claims: Finke’s can be shown to have escaped, and there’s no match for Rauer’s second, though a 139 Sqn aircraft was damaged by a fighter that night, I’ve not been able to cross-check time and place.
Also bear in mind that the 219 had the same engines as the 410, on a larger, heavier airframe, fitted with flame dampers and festooned with aerials. The DB603A had to batter away on that bloody awful B4 fuel, so, “high performance” isn’t exactly a phrase which springs to mind.
Mossies claimed more 219s than the other way round, though I’ve not been able to confirm them all, at least one is for a 219 with an under-slung jet, such creatures certainly existed, but none was reported lost in combat.
“(The “six Mossies in 10 days in June ’43” is the biggest of the 219 myths, simply didn’t happen.)”
Quite widely published myth. Any idea why?
No idea at all. Possibly someone somewhere had some finger trouble, and an awezum story for a kewl aircraft sprang fully-formed into life.
For the record, here’s Heinkel’s own list of 219 victories, up to 17 July ’44, put together as part of their plea to keep the 219 in production. This is from one of the German-language books on the aircraft, I’m no longer sure which one. If there are copyright issues, let me know and I’ll can the images.
… or is it yet another of the many Uhu myths that are out there?
Just another myth.
The very first night-time air-to-air loss of a Mossie was as early as 28/29 July 1942, when Reinhold Knacke of 1./NJG 1 shot down DD677 YP-J of 23 Squadron near Haps, in the Netherlands.
First shoot-down of a Mossie by a 219 didn’t come until 6/7 May ’44. (The “six Mossies in 10 days in June ’43” is the biggest of the 219 myths, simply didn’t happen.)
Xanten is almost certainly a mis-transcription. The micro films can be hard to read, errors creep in. Have seen Havoc, Kanal become Halifax, Kattegat.
Thanks for the replies, all.
Hah – you’re not wrong!
This isn’t the further reading that I had in mind when I asked for it above 😉 At least the first-hand accounts in the book can’t be full of misinformation.
This is the “real deal” when it comes to USAAF Mosquito recce/covert operations:
http://www.amazon.com/The-25th-Bomb-Group-World/dp/0764339508
(Norman Malayney’s book).
This thread is worth a look:
If you only paid $50, you got a good buy, though I don’t know what shipping costs will have been. I paid substantially more for my copy, though I had the privilege of being at the Wright-Patterson USAF Museum bookshop when I got it.
Here’s what the book has to say in terms of facts and figures, including performance:
Note the number produced with/without the turret, and when
Top speed no great shakes, though not much different from the Mosquito NF.XVII (1942-vintage) against which it was apparently tested. Against the XIX it would have suffered low down against the Merlin 25s, against the NF.XXX it would have suffered even more up high, against the two-stage Merlins.
That roll rate is very slow – especially given that it’s measured against a 90 (!) lb force.
As for the famed fly-off (apparently July 5, 1944), as noted above, it was against a 1942-vintage NF.XVII (NF.XXX was on the point of going into service), apparently flown by S/L Eric Barwell, of 125 Sqn. I’ve never seen anything written about it from the RAF side. The one person who appears to have actually researched the event is a guy named Dana Bell, who at one point worked for the US National Air and Space Museum. Many years ago, he posted this on one of the earliest aviation-related message boards. I once asked him if he was going to publish – he wasnt’ sure, but as he put this on a public message board, I suppose there won’t be any issue copying it here:
While I can’t prove to anyone that one aircraft was “better” than the
other, I’ve done a lot of research on the great nightfighter flyoff. I can
confirm that the results were rigged to give the American crews more faith in
the P-61s they were about to take into combat.
Carl Spaatz had requested Mossie Mk.30s to replace P-61s, citing the Black
Widow’s poor performance at altitudes over 20,000 feet, lack of range, and
short mission duration. The Brits at that time were havein problems
producing the Mk.30s, and had to decline. The American units (422d & 425th
NFSs) were only aware of the possible change, and didn’t want to give up
their aircraft for something British. It was into this arena that two
“contestants” were thrown. I am sure that the “contest” was rigged for the
following reasons:
1 – If the Mosquito had won, the Brits could not have provided any aircraft
until October or November: it was not in their interest to win.
2 – The American crews were so hopped up about having a chance to prove
their worth that there was a drawing among the top crews to see who would
have the honor of picking up the gauntlet.
3 – The American aircraft was specially tuned by factory representatives to
be capable of its best performance.
4 – The British crew was never told they were in a contest – they were told
to go up and evaluate the relative merits of the two aircraft.
5 – The British aircraft used single-stage Merlins (it was a Mk.XIX, I
belive) and was taken off the line without special servicing.
6 – The tests were flown at 5,000, 10,000, 15,000, and 20,000 feet, below
the altitude were the P-61’s speed deficiencies became so apparent.
7 – The tests were flown in daylight, with both aircraft approaching from
head on, then turning to try to get on each other’s tail. (The P-61 had an
ability to turn very quickly, but the tactic was rarely of any use to a night
fighter.)
8 – The final report was never shown to one of the two American evaluators.
Fourty years later, he still thought the Mosquito had won, and was surprised
to see a report recommending the P-61, a report onto which his signature had
been forged.
9 – The report itself never said the P-61 was superior, only that it would
be adequate. The report cited one of the main reasons the P-61 was so good
was the remotely operated turret, which overcame many other disadvanages. On
the last page, the same report resommended removal of that turret to make
room for more fuel, the only means of improving endurance.
I know this is a very short version of the story, which needs to be written
up in full one day, but, personally, I have little doubt that the Mosquito
was the more capable night fighter. The P-61 was just the best available to
the AAF for most of the war.
-Dana
Top three characters on the one on the left are “Sei ryuu kan”, which is a pipe (kan) which controls or governs (sei) the flow (ryuu), of, as Whitley’s noted above, something at high pressure. The lower three are “Setsu dan ki”, literally connect / disconnect device.
Lower right also contains the characters (katakana) for pump. Character on the far right is “he”, same as “direction to”. So the whole label is for something that leads to the oil pump.
To see him disappearing out of sight below us still spinning was very enjoyable.
I have this vision of Peter leaning over and saying “Meep meep!”
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That is depicting a No. 487 (NZ) Squadron Mosquito. I did not know that they carried rockets on that squadron’s aircraft. Can anyone confirm this please?
No, they didn’t carry rockets. The only 2nd TAF Mosquito unit I ever read about using rockets was, IIRC from Sharp & Bowyer, 305 Sqn, which again from memory had a brief flirtation with them in July or August ’44.
I built that kit many lifetimes ago, I believe the 262 is in the markings of KG51. The box cover uses artistic license, as they say.
I’ve never found any evidence of USAAF heavies carrying less than 4,500 lbs to Berlin, though I believe there was an obscure, not-often-carried all-incendiary load on the B-17 that was less than 4,000. As I say, I’ve never found any evidence it was carried to Berlin. I think the whole story comes from Don Bennett’s book.
FWIW, Sharp & Bowyer go into quite a bit of detail about this issue – “trouble at mill” having resulted from the promise to deliver 50 aircraft by the end of ’41, which apparently was seen as impossible and inviting trouble from MAP. They say the 50th was actually delivered mid-March ’42, two-and-a-half months past the target, however some delays were due to MAP making repeated changes to the number of PR / fighter / bomber aircraft in the mix.