You wouldn’t be recreating an MR1. You’d be ending up with an MR.2 with an MR1 nose and other bits bolted to it. The majority of the airframe would still be an aircraft with its own history and provenance with the RAF as an MR.2 (or AEW2 technically). If it was a case of, say, using the outer wings off a scrap 2 to complete an MR1 then fair do’s, the majority of the a/c would still be the original MR1.
It’d be like me bolting a wing off the prototype MGB on mine, then claiming its the prototype…

No you wouldnt, you would be creating a representation of an MR1, and the underlying airframe would retain its own history for what its worth as you and I and others would all know its really WL747/757 with a nose job and paint scheme and fake ID.

Yet there are many many aircraft in museums or flying, mascarading in the paint scheme and identity of a more famous example, and even representing a different sub-model of their type with or without modification.

The “RAF” Beaufort in the RAF Museum was not built or flown in the UK, its a hybrid of a number of DAP / RAAF examples presented as a Bristol Mk II, an otherwise extinct type in the UK, the BBMF fly their Lancaster in the colour schemes of wartime B1s and B111s, not as post war test aircraft.

The USAF Museum have a late model B25 modified by the manufacturer North American to represent an early B25C in Doolittle raid colours.

The Yorkshire “Halifax” was mentioned earlier, a Hybrid of original and differing types, along with mockup parts, the Hastings heritage and history is not on display, but it wasnt going to be preserved itself in anycase?

There are 3 AEW-2’s in the UK, it is very unlikely anyone will bring a forth into the country to display as itself, I assume “WL790” was’nt required/demanded to be returned to the UK although possibly capable of one last ferry flight, as there was’nt the offer of homes for it?, instead it has found a home at Pima, but the same is unlikely for both of the Papho’s examples?

Two of the AEW-2’s in the UK are having their later history removed to recreate their earlier MR-2 history, while the airframe identity is retained, some heritage is being lost, and the outcome is not a “pure”, “exact” time capsule example of an MR-2, but still plays an important role in preservation of the type.

Hence my question, is a “recreated”, MR-1, based on an AEW-2, (without claiming it to be an original MR-1) a worthwhile outcome given it appears technically feasible? – “Does the type justift the effort?”

regards

Mark Pilkington

Pagen,

So is that to say two of the AEW-2s WL795 and WR963 have been converted back to MR-2 after retirement from service, but only one seriously? (WL795), with a third (WR960) remaining in full AEW-2 configuration at Manchester?

Or are you saying that WR963 isnt really an attempt to convert back to MR-2 but isnt fully intact as an AEW-2? but more a mixture of available parts to complete it?

As I’m not an expert in the differences between the MR-1, MR-2 and AEW-2 are (other than the obvious nose etc) I assume all three are largely structurally the same airframe, (other than the nose, turrets and tailboom and tailwheel), and its more ancillary and internal equipment that creates the true differences?

If thats so, is there really a great difference between creating a MR-1 from a AEW-2 (with appropriate cockpit change and other ancillary changes – turret/tail boom) and converting an AEW-2 back to an MR-2? (other than the integrity of the airframe identity?)

regards

Mark Pilkington

pagen01 Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_pilkington
Given there are two surviving MR-1/T4 cockpits at Norwich and Corwall, my mind wandered to the “what if” of is there any viability in converting a surviving AEW2 back to an MR-1? (obviously the MR-3 has too many structural differences).

The search function is your friend, http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho…shackleton+mk1
The idea was discussed here last month

Yes – that will teach me to be busy for 2 days in February on the 16th to 18th and not read all posts, and not to search before posting, for every “off-the-wall” idea or “what if” in case some other looney has posted it previously – smiles

To be truthful I havent been a big fan of the Shack or an avid reader of the threads here on Shacks, seeking interest in a flying example etc, however that recent mag coverage, and my knowledge of the types ancestral link to the Lincoln caused me to ponder- as previously explained.

While that thread did cover some interesting ground it didnt seem to reach any conclusion or concensus?

I did find it interesting that Roberts Shack was considered of little interest to dismantle and relocate given it was already then the last MR-1 surviving, yet it had already been dismantled and moved once, and breaks into large but moveable sections?

– (mods- I’m more than happy to have this thread joined onto the “Converting a mk2 Shackleton” thread in anycase)

WL795 takes pride of place on the gate at St Mawgan (still a thriving RAF camp) and is still looked after by a dedicated band of volunteers of the Cornwall Aviation Society and supported by the RAF.
See here, http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho…ackleton+wl795

The idea of converting WL795 into an MR.1 was toyed with in the early resto phase in 1989, this might have coincided with Strathallans T.4 being notified for possible disposal.

I had specifically ruled out using one of the three existing AEW-2’s in the UK given one is to fly, leaving only two “secure” in static preservation, the Cyprus AEW-2’s face an uncertain future and would seem the most likely source of a donor airframe?

It is a feasible excercise as the differences are at the transport joints, it would be straight forward, if very time consuming and fiddly. However how would you make up the blunt tailcone and fixed tailwheel assembly of the earlier mark?

The outcome would obviously be and remain a hybrid, the blunt tailcone would seem to be an exercise in fibreglassing? the fixed tailwheel assembly a compromise in accuracy, as would be the internals?

Interestingly one online source implied two of the 3 surviving UK AEW-2s had been modified back to MR-2 configuration after removal from service and entry into preservation, has that resulted in compromise of accuracy? or were the mods simply removal of additional equipment? added to MR-2’s to create the AEW capability?

The biggest hurdle though is ownership, I can’t see anyone wanting to butcher any of the UK based Mk.2s and I certainly can’t imagine that the owners of the two excellent Mk.1 (T.4) cockpit sections will want to loose them to another project

I would agree there is little point to butcher one of the 3 remaining MR-2/AEW-2’s, and an MR-3 conversion seems pointless to consider.

I had assumed Norwich was a likely starter if they owned a cockpit and had the space/interest, obviously Flambards would have no interest in producing a complete airframe display. In relation to relinquishing ownship of the MR-1 cockpits I doubt IWM would be interested? Flambards might be, or willing to accept a swap of the expected surplus AEW-2 cockpit from a Cyprus donor airframe, but the building removal costs and interruptions to business would seem to be the stumbling block with that one?

I’m not advocating it be done, only questioning the viability of it?

The earlier thread covered some of the same ground but didnt seem to reach any conclusion in regards to the “what if” that I pondered?

I guess the question still is –
“does the type justify the effort?”
and without that question answered it doesnt matter “who might do it?”

regards

Mark Pilkington