well, I used to watch those guys a lot back in Saudi Arabia, ever since I moved to Syria I don’t get to see western types any more 😛 .
Royal Saudi Air Force Tornado flyers are real good aviators, they do some of the most wonderful airobatics I’ve ever seen, and I’m talking about the level of small sports events in small Saudi cities, they’d simply show up and do their stuff then head back home, really cool and the people love them.
So, do you have something against Kuwaitis? Are Kuwaiti journalists in your book incapable of conducting an impartial interview?
WOW, gives a new meaning to putting words in somebody’s mouth.
I have nothing against Kuwaitis, I just wanted to remind you that in this particular case, we have only one source which is unfortunatly biased to the max because of certain historic events.
Are you seriously suggesting that the Farmer on his own disabled the Apache with only his trusty old bangstick?
not at all, I just said I’ve seen pics of it’s interior with traces of 23mm hits, which makes perfect sense to me.
Lt. Col. Eric Nelson gave details of 99-5135s eventual demise:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0507/p04s01-woiq.html
There was never two of them in Iraqi hands. Later on in the conflict the Iraqis released previously unseen footage of 99-5135 claiming that it was yet another Apache downed and captured. The give away was that the M261 rocket launcher was shown to have EXACTLY the same number of rockets spent as in the original footage of 99-5135. Bit of a giveaway!
I really don’t care if there was one or two, it’s nigligable in comparison with the total war losses, besides the Iraqi army lost the war anyway and debating about them shooting down one or two Apaches is a waste of time and wouldn’t change the result would it?.
now debating about current losses is a different thing because the resistance is on going and the result of it’s struggle isn’t clear yet, unlike the result of the actions of the former regiem.
TJ, do you know that the interview Minqash supposedly gave was published by a KUWAITI :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: newspaper then copied by everybody else?
not to mention that the Apache was never destroyed – according to some American website – which published pictures of it with 23mm hits inside … the other version I got from the Iraqis is that it was destroyed in the fifth attempt when it spent the night in BIA, they were moving it constantly but when they dsidn’t it was hit, well that’s what they say, unless there were indeed two of them 😮 :confused: .
Next time you have a Parade, could you please take a bloody Camara with you lol. Then Post the results on here, im sure it will make a lot of people happy! 😀
I’m sure my family won’t be among them :p .
Arthur, a few years ago the Italian air force show team did a show over Minakh AB that was attended by the public and aired life on Syrian TV.
they visited the base for a few days so I’m sure they had many pics right?.
BTW, I think Arthur once spoke about how friendly SyAAF base guards were with some of his spotter friends and that had a chat together or something like that.
talking from memory here.
yes we do have parades, the SyAAF shows in each and every occassion, I’ve been over flown by MiG-23s, MiG-25s, Mi-8s and SA.342s so many times I can’t remember how many actually.
I was once over flown by MiG-29s and many times by MiG-21s.
we simply don’t print pics of these aircraft … that’s all, actually the MiG-23s fly so low over Damascus during the October 6th celibrations that you can recognize each and every detail.
the weekly show prepared by the ministry of defense usually contains incredable stuff and is showed at 17:30 on monday each week!.
last year the Israeli air force magazine had stills from one of those shows.
anybody else wondering why is this SyAAF MiG-29 carrying a two digit serial??? :p :p :p .
Kfadrat, welcome back.
No, I believe he was using the term “inferior” to describe the situation the Syrian Airforce was in.
BTW do you have any pics of Israeli fighter planes shot down over Lebanon in 1982?
I posted one in here a few weeks ago, thanks for the welcome 🙂 .
or else .
Or else, habibi? Gotta love such macho statements . Don’t worry: most Zionists are slightly smarter than making statements this dumb.
or else I would report you to WM, but I think you were smart enough to think about that possibility yourself, being a zionist and all :rolleyes: .
we all know you have issues and the discussions on ACIG.org show that very well.
I believe that you are missing the point: the rout suffered by the Syrian AF in Bekaa ’82 was not only a matter of individual plane or pilot superiority.
They were certainly “somewhat” inferior in that respect, how much exactly not being the question here, but the crux of the matter is that they had to go into battle piecemeal, without ground control, basically blind. Their ATC assets had been wiped out. And they had to rise in defense of their ground forces against an air force that had full ground control and even E-2 awacs.
They did not stand a chance. This is almost completely independant of the personal value of each pilot and plane.
I personally believe the Syrians were very inferior anyway, so much so that they would have been spanked anyway even in a level-field battle, but 1) this was not a level-field battle, and 2) this kind of opinion is purely personal and there is no hope that we will ever agree. No point even raising it. The point is: whether right or wrong, it had almost no influence on the outcome of that particular battle.
The crux: the tally of Bekaa ’82 does not reflect plane-vs-plane values, nor pilot-vs-pilot. It reflects the value of battlefield management and organized formations against a blinded and piecemeal enemy.
82-to-0 or 100-to-0, or whatever the tally is, basically reflects only how many planes the Syrians did send before giving up. In those conditions they could have sent any numbers, the poor sods just did not have a chance.
inferior!!!!! I hope you are not using the expression ethincally here or else 😡 .
ok, this is getting sooooooo boring … while in this particular case, I was shocked by the news in the ACIG.org article, I still can’t understand the way some here are trying to portrait things, the mere idea of trying to mix ACIG with the idiots at world tribune and debka files and meaddle east news is stupid to say the least, there is a big difference here, the other sites are just propaganda sites run by you know who, especially debka files, full of crab, while the people at ACIG actually do research and know what they are talking about, those accusing them of being behind fame know nothing about what they are talking about!
what do you think? that I’m happy about the shoot down reports? I’ll be the first to be glad to know they didn’t happen – the 2001 ones, we know the 2004 ones are fake – but until somebody comes with counter evidence I’ll have to stay nuetral on this one and niether support the claim or deny it 🙁 .
ok, I’ll go for the F/A-18 to become QF-18, it would be a crime to make a QF-15 or QF-14.
well, if it’s not the F-16 then what would it be?.
there are already almost one thousand F-16s in AMARC … Washington doesn’t play fare in the international market you know.
when are the QF-4s going to be retired and substituded by QF-16s?.
some of my predictions might be strange but I still have a feeling they’ll happen:
2005 will see – finally – some serious air to air combat, doesn’t anybody miss that any more??? :confused: .
some of the previously un_fair_done_to AAMs will fare unexpectedly well in 2005.
Royal Saudi Air Force will not retire it’s F-5s and will not satisfy a large company’s wet dream by buying F-16s.
the JAS-39 will do just fine on export market.
stelth + tomahawk-like weapons will prove – again – to be the only correct way to start a war.
more ugly F-16s will crash to satisfy Arthur’s crashed laundarters’ pictures collection desire, and mine too :diablo: .
finally, we’ll be hearing about a dozen new Russian modrenisation programes for each and every single type in service and none of them will finally become reality, ok I admit I’m cheating now from previous years.
well dan, although I agree with the damn zionists part, I have to say only two F-4E (s) aircraft were in service in 2001 and those are the two that were retired recently.
Alex, I have a picture of two Israeli POWs just before they were traded back, one of them is a pilot, might as well upload it here.