Tim MillsBut you were certainly right in your 1000th post, Andy; Winged Victory is a marvellous book, and well worth the magic number. So I don’t think humble pie is warranted in the slightest!
I first read it in paperback many years ago, when I thought I was a bit clever flying the Pitts with the Rothmans Aeros Team. That book very quickly put me back in my place, with a proper perspective on things. Now I have fairly recently found a well thumbed and tatty hardback edition in our local library here in Oz. I want to buy it, but they say it is still in demand, and my argument that I am the chap who keeps taking it out, which is why it is still in demand, cuts no ice. So I am tempted to ‘lose’ it, the enormous fine will be worth every cent!
Good luck with the plaque, a great idea.
Tim
Tim MillsGreat photo of two lovely aeroplanes, Melvyn, but I REALLY like the car between them!
Had one once. Instead of frittering away my ‘light alloy’ bowler (well Golden it certainly wasn’t, and Silver still a bit over the top; but they did give me a little handshake when I left the RAF) on the mortgage, or clothing my children, I bought a 2nd hand Plus 4 four seater, thinking it would be the ideal family car. I loved it, wife, small daughter and dog hated it unless it was sitting looking pretty in the drive! Had to change it when elder daughter produced No 1 grandson (now 30!), and the carrycot wouldn’t fit.
But I digress; this is supposed to be all about flying over new years eve. Nor me neither, but I might have once upon a time.
And I like spattersons NYE menu, almost up to Oz barbie and a couple of bottles of red standard!
A rather muted Happy New Year to all this year, in view of recent events, but good luck to all nonetheless.
Tim
Tim MillsThanks very much Keithmac, yes that’s the one, lovely! And thanks for your thoughts, I remember Squadron record books, in my day the Sqn Adj was one of the aircrew as a secondary duty, not me, I’m glad to say, so I’m not surprised that the odd mistake crept in. Nice to meet a couple of people from my fathers old squadron, if only by electronic proxy! Many thanks, Tim
Tim MillsThanks for responses and picture. It would seem that either my old friend has it wrong, unlikely in view of the photo he has, or the official report has the wrong a/c tail number. I’ll keep looking. I still prefer the uprightV nose shape of the Curtiss Fox to the inverted V Kestrel shape, but then I was brought up with it from my fathers old photos, now sadly vanished.
Thanks,Tim
Tim MillsIf I remember right, the Bouchons dressed as Hurricanes were only used in the Polish sequence to make up numbers. In that sequence the leading Hurricane flown by the stiff upper lip English squadron commander (Barry Foster?) goes straight on while the other 2+3 peel off to join the fray. Having seen his troops all disobey his orders, he follows them. So it would have been difficult to reproduce the five convincingly, with the leader flying straight and level in the foreground.
I was leading that particular formation shot, flying the part of the squadron commander, so had to go straight on while the rest enjoyed themselves! Then I was allowed to do a smart peel off myself.
I think that scene was shot after the ‘sky full of aeroplanes’ bits had been done, so I’m not sure if the three Bouchons had to be repainted back to their original colours. A lot of repainting, mainly of squadron letters and so on, was going on all the time, so I don’t think it came as any surprise to us suddenly to find RAF coloured Bouchons, flown by Spanish pilots in our formation! We all enjoyed ourselves.
Tim MillsJoined Aug 48, left Apr 73. Best time to be in by my reckoning. RAFG (Sylt) mid 50s, and Cyprus (Akrotiri/Episcopi) mid 60s the highlights. Meteors, Vampires, Venoms, Canberras, F86 just, Hunter a little more, rides in Lightning and Phantom, and a lot of QFIing, can’t have been a better time. Then endless desks, so left to find more flying!
Luckily, the nearest I got to firing in anger was on the ground, leading a convoy of cars from Akrotiri to Limassol, when the Cyprus troubles erupted in 65. Given a revolver, a box of bullets tied up so well in cellotape it would have taken a while to open even if I had been told not to on pain of something or other not to. I’d rather be flying!
Interesting picture, Mark 12, of my favourite Spitfire. Looked much better, and more in her element in BofB film, in rather worn camouflage, and in my fairly adventurous delivery flight from Bovingdon to Coltishall, referred to in another thread some time ago.I have a photo of her on that flight, taken from the accompanying JP, over the Wash. Unfortunately I haven’t the wherewithall to enclose it. Must get organised!
Tim MillsAlbert: 50 hrs Spit, various marks, and quite a few from back seat of the two seater with cameraman, or camera only, in the front seat.
30 hrs Hurricane
35 minutes Buchon; so I could say I nearly flew a Bf 109!
No photos I’m afraid, not much of a cameraman, and so many others around. And neither my computer, nor me, equipped to send them!
Corsair 166b: I agree; I was glad to have known him.
Cheers,Tim
Tim MillsI first met Jeff when he and Dwaine Egli (?) were flying the B25 camera plane on the BofB film. He led this gaggle of a couple of He111, a dozen or so Buchons and up to ten or so Spits/Hurricanes up and down the East coast of UK, filming the ‘sky full of aircraft’ sequences. I was in that gaggle, great fun. We also did smaller sequences with the B25, and I particularly remember one which involved a tail chase of several Spitfires being filmed from the tail position. I was about no 3 or 4, with a couple behind me, and since Jeff was not shy about throwing his bomber about, the G forces built up along the line. I happened to notice the top surfaces of my wings were showing distinct wrinkling as things got more hectic; and hate to think what those behind me were feeling! No G meters on those old aircraft, and I suspect we were actually well within the limits, but I had not noticed it before.
Jeff was a larger than life character, an excellent pilot, and when I spent a couple of days with him some time later in Jersey on some film or other, excellent company. Unfortunately I lost touch with him when I got a proper job, and was very sad to read of his death some time later. It seems ironic that after all his escapades, and the exotic types he had flown, he should fall foul of a friendly old Aztec.
Tim MillsHow nice to see P7350 looking so good. I did my last Spitfire flight in her, so feel special affection for her.
On 5 November 1968, after the aerial scenes for the BofB film had been completed, I was given the “onerous” task of delivering P 7350 from Bovingdon to Coltishall, the then home of the BofB Memorial Flight, her new owner. I didn’t object!
At the time I was instructing on Jet Provosts and Chipmunks at Cranwell, and my boss suggested that it would be a good idea to show the budding Harrier and Phantom pilots what a real aeroplane looked like by stopping for lunch at Cranwell on the way, which I did. I got a mild rap over the knuckles later because we hadn’t told Coltishall, and they wondered where there new toy had got to.
After lunch I set off for Colt, in company with a Jet Provost, which had to do the R/T, since I only had VHF and the RAF UHF. Arrived at Colt, the Lightning OCU, with two or three Lightnings in the circuit, all using as much fuel for one circuit as I used for the whole trip, JP got joining clearence, I got green light from runway caravan, did customary low run in and break to downwind, throttle to idle, U/C down, curved approach to keep threshold in sight past the nose, trickle of power round finals; NO TRICKLE OF POWER! only large three bladed prop coming to a standstill. Tight finals, delay flap, no problem in making the runway, phew!
Lightnings in circuit see their only runway blocked by dead Spitfire, frantic pilot trying to push it to the nearest exit. luckily Colt OC Flying soon joined me, and we soon cleared the runway before anyone became too upset.
My final flight in a delightful, classic aeroplane, which it had been a privilege to fly. No wonder I remember it so well.
Tim MillsCan’t let this thread go without adding my two cents worth. Lovely pictures of a classic; particularly, for me, of G-AIYR in the red and white scheme, which is the one I remember from when it was owned by Vivian Bellamy at Lands End.
I spent a happy year or so working for Viv at Land End, in 1975, as ’round the lighthouse’, QFI and air taxi pilot in an ancient Cessna 172, Airtourer and Apache 235 respectively. Viv did all the Rapide flying, mainly throwing the local parachute club members out. But I did find in my log book the other day: 21 Jul 75, Self + 1, Rapide G-AIYR , Circuit, .05. Five minutes only, but my justification for appearing on this thread! I can’t remember who the +1 was. I think it may have been the student I was teaching at the time. I still remember sitting in solitary splendour at the sharp end, and thinking it was just like a big Tiger Moth. Wish I had had more.
I do remember one day, the Rapide was parked, into wind naturally, chocked no doubt in front, but not behind the wheels, and the brakes left off. Wind increased, Rapide started taxiing backwards with no one at the helm. I was rather more fleet of foot in those days than I am now, and managed to chase it down, scramble aboard and apply the brakes before it got too far. Maybe that was why I was rewarded with a circuit.
Viv was a lovely fellow, so maybe I just asked. Happy days.
Tim MillsMark 12 was kind enough to send me the ‘dummy’ picture, and so that is obviously how it was done. The following one is of a pleased looking Mike Vickers, so he must have flown it, but not quite in the way I had thought! Maybe he was as disenchanted as I was at the thought of somehow ejecting the chap from the front seat of the two seater.
Wish I’d been able to attend the anniversary at Duxford, and had a chance to meet some of those old mates. Health and geographical problems made it impossible. Health ones overcome, but geographical ones remain!
Finally, can anyone tell me where I can get copies of the two books by Robert Rudhall about the making of the film. I have seen the book of photos, very kindly lent by a Ppruner, and would like a copy of my own, as well as the account. I never met Mr Rudhall, in fact only heard of him lately. Very sad to hear of his passing.
Tim MillsThanks airgage for your comments; it is nice to have an excuse to look through the old log books, if only to think’what on earth was that all about’.
Neil Medcalf, I got your PM, and will reply by e mail in the next couple of days. Not sure how much help I can be though.
Interesting sequence of dummy bale out. I’m still quite sure it was done from the front seat of the two seater, with Mike Vickers driving. My short flight was only an airtest to see how it felt, no cine work was involved. I certainly don’t remember any talk of tying the dummy to the wing root, or winches and the like.
I was also interested in the Spit line up, and the one of the G/S camera. Both were taken during the period when most of the Spits had gone to Montpellier in the south of France to try and find some cloudless sky, reminiscent of England in 1940. The other Hurricane pilot, Dave Curry, and myself had to stay behind in case they could do some Hurricane filming. In the event, all we did was taxi non flyable Spits through exploding holes in the ground, for the airfield bombing sequence. As I complained at the time, exciting enough, but hardly south of France by Spitfire!
Tim MillsAs I said to Mk12, it is 35 years or so since the film was made, and memories tend to fade. I am sure that the ‘lump’ housed an inward pointing camera looking at the pilot. But, as I said to him, I cannot remember why. I did find an entry in my log book ‘filming with wing camera’, an hours flight, so obviously more than just to see if it worked. But what exactly we did, I’m afraid I can’t remember.
I do remember doing a fair bit of flying from the back seat with the gunsight camera in the front seat. Can’t quite remember how it was positioned, but I know there was no sighting as such, in the rear cockpit. I have several entries ‘messerschmitt tailchase with G/S camera’, about three sorties of forty minutes each, and a couple ‘heinkel attacks with G/S camera’, one of fifty five minutes, and one of one hour five. So there must have been a fair amount of film, but probably not a lot with the ‘enemy’ a/c actually in the sight ring! I also did a few flights with a cameraman in the front seat, for formation shots and so on.
So far as the dummy was concerned, I am sure it was done from the front seat of the two seater. I did one flight with the dummy in the front seat, only ten minutes, because I wasn’t too happy with the thought of it getting draped over the rudder or elevator. So far as I remember, the front cockpit cover was either removed or wound fully back, and it seemed to me that the dummy sat rather high in the cockpit. How it was to be jettisoned I can’t remember. So I took it home! I am sure that Mike Vickers, who was rather more intrepid than me, being a Boscombe Down pilot, did the dummy flying in the end, while I went back to my day job, instructing on Jet Provosts.
Great fun, marvellous experience, long time ago!
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