Ok, to get rid of this speculation on a speculation on a speculation (which I fairly hate on this forum as its only fueled by I-wish people thinking about their own super sub). Here is where it started:

La Tribune, a French paper that found a leak (actually just a name) and wrote this speculative article:

La Tribune – article du 20/NaN/1/11
DCN travaille sur un projet de nouveau sous-marin

Ce projet de DCN, dont le nom de code est Marlin, pourrait être proposé au Pakistan.

Dans un marché naval très porteur, DCN travaille, selon nos informations, sur un projet de sous-marin qui pourrait succéder à l’exportation au Scorpène franco-espagnol à propulsion classique, déjà acheté par le Chili (pour deux exemplaires), la Malaisie (deux) et l’Inde (six). Ce projet, dont le nom de code est Marlin, reste pour l’heure un programme interne de DCN, qui devrait être développé à partir de certaines technologies du Scorpène.

Les Espagnols, qui ont un programme concurrent en cours de développement, le S80, et ont préféré des groupes américains en tant que fournisseurs du système d’armes, n’ont pas été invités à participer à ce nouveau projet.

Le projet Marlin répond de façon précise à une demande officielle du Pakistan qui veut, en acquérant 3 à 5 bâtiments, poursuivre son effort d’équipement après l’achat de trois sous-marins Agosta à la France en 1994 pour 820 millions d’euros. Les Espagnols et les Allemands sont déjà sur les rangs. Paris ayant vendu le Scorpène à l’Inde, il lui faut un autre matériel pour répondre à la demande d’Islamabad. Le Marlin serait donc tout indiqué.

Problème pour DCN : elle n’a pas obtenu de feu vert afin de pouvoir exporter ce matériel. Le conseiller diplomatique et sherpa du chef de l’État, Maurice Gourdault-Montagne, s’est opposé ces derniers mois à la plupart des demandes d’exportation émanant de groupes français en direction du Pakistan, préférant privilégier les liens commerciaux avec l’Inde. Une réunion tenue avant Noël à l’Élysée n’a rien changé. DCN n’a donc pas encore reçu d’agrément de la Commission interministérielle pour l’étude des exportations de matériels de guerre (CIEMG).

Concurrence internationale. Or, le Scorpène se heurte désormais à la concurrence de nouveaux modèles étrangers sur un marché des sous-marins en très forte croissance. De très nombreux pays ont lancé ou étudient des projets d’acquisition. Dans ce cadre, les équipes commerciales d’Armaris, société commune entre Thales et DCN, attendent beaucoup des appels d’offres lancés au Brésil, au Venezuela (pour quatre unités) et au Chili (pour deux sous-marins supplémentaires). Des pays du Moyen-Orient (Arabie Saoudite, Émirats arabes unis) réfléchissent aussi à la création de sous-marinades.

I translated it for you, not really my language (but I should normally know it), if there are any major mistakes I guess I’ll hear it from our French collegues here!

La Tribune
DCN is working on a project for a new submarine

This project of DCN, which has the codename Marlin, COULD be offered to Pakistan.

In a heavy Naval market, DCN is working, according to OUR informations, on a submarine project that COULD supersede the export of Scorpene, a Franco-Spanish submarine with Classic propulsion (read Diesel-electric), already bought by Chile (2), Malaysia (2) and India (6). This project, of which the codename is Marlin, remains at this moment an INTERNAL program of DCN, which COULD be developed starting from certain technologies of Scorpene.

The Spanish, which have a competing programme under development, the S80, and which prefer the Americans to deliver the weapon systems, have not been invited for participation on this new project.

The Marlin project answers on a precise official demand from Pakistan which, by buying 3 to 5 boats, wants to continue its equipment effort after the acquisition of 3 Agosta submarine from France in 1994 for 820mlln euro. The Spanish and the Germans are already there with offers. Paris, having sold the Scorpene to India, needs a different design to answer the demand of Islamabad. The Marlin is indicated for this.

The Problem for DCN: It did not receive the green light for the export of this design. The diplomatic council and second in line of the Minister of State, Maurice Gourdault-Montagne, has opposed most of the export demands of French companies to Pakistan in the last months, privileging the commercial ties with India. A gathering before Christmas in Paris hasn’t changed anything and DCN still didn’t reach an agreement with the Commision of Ministers for the Export of weapons.

International competition. However, the Scorpene is rising, even with the competition of new foreign models on a submarine market that is strongly growing. Lots of countries have launched or studied projects for the acquisition of submarines. In this background, the commercial group of Armaris (Common society of Thales and DCN), has received many requests from Brazil, Venezuele (4 units) and Chile (2 additional Units). Countries from the Middle East (Saudi Arabia, UAE) are thinking about the creation of a submarine fleet/arm.

So, as you can see, many COULDs in there… Lots of speculation and actually nothing really concrete there. All it says is that there is a study going on to see if they can meet a requirement from Pakistan. Which means, there is hardly anything on paper and hence even less to discuss or dream about than Borei or Yasen.

They don’t have any penalty clauses included for the very simple reason that they can’t pay themselves. Normally a ship is paid in several shelves, one paid before construction, to give the yard the chances to buy the material. Afterwards it depends on the duration and specifications of ships, with generally the last part being paid at delivery.
Russian Navy didn’t meet any of their shelves and so it’s normal for the yard to delay completion. They just didn’t receive any money, why would they advance the building? They know that the Russian Navy would get the ship if it was finished, the State is still powerful and then it would have been partially paid by the yard (this is actually how the State did get those big debts to SevMash and why SevMash didn’t want to give Tula back). So if you keep your ship partially finished, they’ll have to pay to get it.

Yasen could end up as a Russian SeaWolf in terms of cost. If she’s too expensive they’ll probably wait a bit longer before buying any additional units (or just cancel it after all). The Akulas that were on the stocks have been paid for in the past, so that would mean that the VMF can get Akulas while only paying 60% of them (depending on the funding in the past), while any additional Yasen will have to be fully paid and is probably even more expensive after all. Not a bad decision to delay it. With the current maintenance of the Akulas they don’t really need any new SSN. The SSBN fleet on the other hand is a much more suffering type of ship considering their role.

Hello Master Wayne,
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v609/Severodvinsk/
it’s controlled by me, so you know there is much more stuff I haven’t posted.
Watch your mailbox for some really nice stuff 😉 (did you know there was a Victor that did the USS San-Fransisco accident avant la lettre???)

I’m going to close the bucket down again though, I’ll let you know when it’s open again.

Harry, there are a lot of pictures with my name on it on the BR site for which I never gave permission either (neither did I make those pictures).

And unless you know Russian Koshy, you’ll have a hard time getting permission…

Lawrence, a few months ago it was mentioned that the contract price would be higher than for the original Talwars, this due to the induction of Brahmos. Given the named price, I think some other improvements will be made too. They’re still ironing out the bugs.

An inert one yes. Well actually it didn’t, the missile went straight through. Practically it doesn’t protect well and the biggest problem is when it catches fire. It doesn’t easily do so, but once it’s getting warm enough, it does and then it’s big big big trouble to get it extinguished.

Nigerian pirates are indeed not so well armed and naval forces are mostly not in the area. That is also the reason why everyone is avoiding their terminals (I think they have 1 LNG terminal and some oil terminals). Same counts for Somalia, where there is no Navy except for US and NATO navies. Although there they do have RPGs as proven by the two or three RPGs that were fired against a cruise vessel this year.
In Malacca the story is different. They are well armed, and some even operate with helicopters from ships themselves (state support???). Last year they even fired a rocket against a tanker when they had difficulties to board. Piracy is a true occupation there, after the Tsunami they seemed to have been washed away, but it only took them a few months to recover. Everytime I pass that Strait, I see those messages of stolen tugs and crew put overboard etc. I don’t think they steal them because I’m coming, so that must happen quite a few times… In Malacca it’s quite ok to have what the Singapore Navy is using, true FACs (and most of the time they don’t carry their Harpoons).
And you don’t need hummer trucks to patrol your EEZ, so getting rid of that deck/replace it with more usefull things, would be a good option.

Nice pics Austin,

Wow, they’re in a bigger mess than I thought! Still the old Legenda system and they try to launch 15 year old satellites, smart idea… Even the new ones hardly work, let alone a 15-year old one.

Oh yes, when I said the Glonass system hardly worked, no one believed me did they… Well I guess Austin’s article shows you in what state it was/is.

If you’re gonna fit ASM and SAM capability, you’ll need the radar and combat management equipment to make it effective, it’ll cost a lot and the ship will grow in size and cost substantially, which will take the design far beyond what it is intended to be. There is a huge problem in most modern navies with rising costs and a lack of economical to build and operate Coastguard/Police type vessels.

Correct on that one, Harpoon is indeed overkill, but some Poliphem or just some anti-tank missiles would do just fine. There has once been the idea to use some Sa’ar 5 craft outfitted with Polyphem wire-guided missiles and Phalanx for US Coast Guard.
I thought that wasn’t a bad idea at all (be it a bit expensive, but of course it’s US).
I’d opt for Phalanx as a self-defence, it’s ok to counter small surface craft too.
So all in all it would look like this:
-57 or 76mm gun
-Anti-tank missiles
-Phalanx.

Nothing too complicated nor overly expensive and still strong enough to take on smugglers, pirates and fishing boats.

btw, they aren’t that scared of helicopters, once a Chinese fisherman threw a broom in a Helix’s propellor, making it crash nearby. With an RPG and the idea of survival they might try to take it out after all.

I’m fully aware of modern piracy and have experience of it at the wrong end.

Which end is the wrong one for you??? 😀

Most pirate gangs run at the first sign of professional naval units, and whilst a 76mm OTO might be useful, very few pirate gangs will take on a helicopter or a naval vessel, and you don’t need Harpoon or Excocet to sink a small boat with an outboard engine or converted fishing boat.

That is not 100% true. It depends what you call a “naval vessel”, Pirates now depend a LOT on land support, they have people everywhere telling them what ships are in which condition etc. If they know this silly thing is coming after them, they’d probably not consider it a naval vessel and know what their chances would be against this. Of course most of them will indeed try to run, as they always do when you sound the alarm, but some of them are really hard headed (3 or 4 boarding attempts happened in more than one occasion).