NeptuneYou guys are nuts, Austin could be right in the way he said “something resembling”. Probably a version a LOT smaller than the one pictured. The ship carrying it is Kerch, a 9,000t 173m long cruiser of the Kara class. These babies are huge, and still that radar is too big for that ship, you can imagine what it would be mounted on a Shivalik… Not a good idea. Shivalik will most likely be a lot lower too, so the use of such a huge radar would decline.
Fregat is good enough as it gives enough range and targets for the AA weapons planned for Shivalik.
NeptuneAren’t they going to build a second one? I heard something like that, called Vittorio Veneto if I’m not mistaken.
NeptuneI think it’s just an error of the slow administration. USSR breaks down, takes a while for them to react and get rid of the planes (although it is indeed more economic to first use them as tankers), not seeing the necessity of new ones as the main threat was gone. Now, Russia started building again, China too… It will take a while to replace them. Horror can’t do it.
NeptuneHorn or Speaker is well possible, for mooring actions when people are on the deck etc. Although you could just put one on top of the sail without using a hingeable cover (with all the connected problems). It could also be one of the ducts for an AirConditioning device, to refresh the air in the sub when surfaced… Really need better pics to judge that.
The sail is full of hatches, there is on on port too, a bit behind the real cockpit though.
NeptuneHorn or Speaker is well possible, for mooring actions when people are on the deck etc. Although you could just put one on top of the sail without using a hingeable cover (with all the connected problems). It could also be one of the ducts for an AirConditioning device, to refresh the air in the sub when surfaced… Really need better pics to judge that.
The sail is full of hatches, there is on on port too, a bit behind the real cockpit though.
NeptuneIt doesn’t look like a navigation light as those are just aft of the rescue capsule, also much lower than that. On the other hand it could have something to do with navigation though, I’ve only seen it “open” in rather dark circumstances, maybe the toplight because they don’t always have their masts up? Any close shots? I’ve only seen it from far.
NeptuneIt doesn’t look like a navigation light as those are just aft of the rescue capsule, also much lower than that. On the other hand it could have something to do with navigation though, I’ve only seen it “open” in rather dark circumstances, maybe the toplight because they don’t always have their masts up? Any close shots? I’ve only seen it from far.
NeptuneAre you guys talking about a real rogue wave here? Or just the regular freak waves?
Anyways the answer is, you don’t have to make any problem about it. It doesn’t happen that often and if it happens it’s game over for this type of aircraft.
Rogue waves are something much more dangerous than this, and AFAIK there have been very little reports of warships ever hit by a Rogue Wave, therefore it is fair to assume this is a problem you really shouldn’t worry about.
If Rogue Waves, which actually take the energy from the waves around it and hence create a huge “valley” in front of the huge wall of water, happened that much, then the shipbuilding industry would have already taken steps to rectify the designs. They were shocked to find out it happened “that much” as they didn’t expect it to really happen, but they also figured out that current wave models are still allright.
I’m not sure what you mean with safe hight as Rogues can get over 30m in hight. And they do appear in just a very short period, not giving you enough time to react.
Apart form that, a very informative and nice thread!!! Keep it coming!
NeptuneNot sure, given the shape of the hull, it should certainly be possible to reach high speeds, it all depends on what screw configuration and engine configuration is used.
How large are these ships? I’ve seen many pictures, but no real specs.
As for the battery question, the Russians already mentioned the 636M has improved batteries, which probably means they have the new Li-ion batteries anyway.
NeptuneThat is actually not true. The only thing AIP does is keep you submerged for a longer while. It doesn’t make the boat more silent, it just avoids the dangerous rise to the surface to use the diesels. Some AIP will be silent, like the fuel cells, others will be more noisy like the closed cycles. But all in all an AIP is not made to keep you silent, it is made to keep you submerged and therefore reduce the chances of being detected.
NeptuneNo, that’s the price nowadays, NH-90 comes at $30mlln a piece. Merlin comes at $40mlln I think. You need something capable, not something from the past like a cheap Lynx or anything, better to buy somewhat more expensive new choppers than buying old stuff that would replacement in 10 years again and hence would become more expensive overall.
Depends on which version they want to buy of course. ASW or transport/SAR?
NeptuneIf you want a good tanker, you’ll have to build it yourself though. Hyundai makes tankers, yes, but they only make 17kts as they are designed to be commercially profitable, not to be uneconomical warships. For a normal UNREP ship, you’d want 20Kts or higher if possible without too much sacrifices in the way of cargo and size.
Then you also need constant tension rigs, different IG systems and probably a helicopter pad with hangar in the back. It’ll cost you if you’d just want a Hyundai or Daewo tanker to convert it to that. These are cheap general designs, all based on the same plan/lay-out. You even have to pay a LOT more when you just want different electronics in them (for example a different brand of navigation radar). Nonetheless it is possible and it’s done in the past, but it did show that it’s not he best of solutions. The current mainstay of Russian UNREP forces, the Boris Chilikin class was also based on the Velikiy Oktyabr class of merchant tankers. She lacks any helicopter facility which makes the transfer of ammo and other solid goods much more complicated.
From experience I can also tell you that you clearly underestimate the crew demands for such ships and the training they need.
NeptuneAlthough China has not yet established an operational satellite navigation and positioning network, research for such a system has been underway for many years, and a
future space-based navigation capability is an acknowledged goal. Beidou (‘Big Dipper’) is the satellite component for the independent Chinese satellite navigation and positioning system. The Beidou satellite navigation and positioning system are consists of two satellites in geosynchronous orbit. The final Beidou constellation will include four satellites, two operational and two backups. Together with the ground stations, the Beidou system will provide navigation and positioning signals covering the East Asia region. However, to provide global signal coverage, satellites flying in other orbits around the world must complement the system. Three satellites have been launched to date
Sorry for the late reply, exams got me hampered on reading.
So, do you mean that these two/three/four satellites, would all be at a rather small distance from each other, just covering SE Asia? And what do you mean with the “together with the ground stations it will provide…”? Does it mean they need the ground stations to process the information and add their own info on it, how do the users get access to the signal from the ground controll station? or does it just mean that these are just ground controll stations, maybe with a DGPS type of feature, to send corrections? Any idea where the ground stations are located?
Who are the users? Missiles? Ships? other forces?
Thanks a lot for the info already provided, it’s really hard to find good info on this.
NeptuneDon’t know what they are talking about, maybe just an AIP like in this sub? Russia already had AIP in the Pyranha class submarine… China was also testing AIP in some Ming class. Possibly this thread just handles something else, like AIP, with this sub as an example or something. I can’t read Chinese so maybe some Chinese person can translate it or just tell what it’s about?
NeptuneThere is one old tanker, from ’75 and two relatively new tankers (one from ’96, an ex-Soviet tanker and one from ’00) None of them are really big, but they would probably suffice. The strange thing is the Soviet tanker… Jyoti is her name, I haven’t seen ANY picture of her in full laden condition, somehow they don’t seem to dare and do that, either by a construction error, or because of the added helicopter platform. Basically there was no helicopter platform planned, so they added it, I’m not sure what this caused in the design. The Chinese Navy has a similar ship from the SU and they added the helicopter deck in a completely different way, I have seen that one in full laden condition. Basically the Chinese have chosen the better option, because when a ship is in full laden condition, you have the full advantage of your bulbuous bow, resulting in less fuel consumption and a somewhat higher speed. On the short term that is good for China, on the other hand, they have added the deck with a extending part from the stern, something that is quite prone to fatigue, so in the long term they might lose a part of their tanker…
For the Indian Navy the tankers suffice (for now), with an enlargement they will have to take care and keep in mind that they will need more replenishment vessels to keep the fleets running, certainly when they want to operate three ADS.
China has taken care of that with their new, huge tankers, even before the real fleet build-up has begun.
Wanshan, there is no such thing as reversible turbine, it just means they have put a gearbox in it, which also means more maintenance, loss of power and something more prone to damage.
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