Rust is a general problem, but “stainless” doesn’t exist. Stainless steel is made by using an acid on the outside layer of the metal. Then only the outside atoms are ionised and can’t oxide/corrode. Once you submit a stainless piece of steel to acids or cause a slight crack/damage/streak in the outside layer of the stainless steel, it becomes useless and it corrodes much faster on the inside than normal steel.
As mentioned by Daniel, in the marine environment it is rough, the salinity and temperature differences constantly attack the skin of the steel construction, if this would be stainless steel, it would get damaged equally fast and cost much more.
Another point Daniel mentioned is also right, if you want to weld such, it is very hard not to damage that outside layer and your welds themselves will corrode causing a severe danger for cracking.
As for strength, there are compounds that are much much much stronger than steel, yet the creation of steel makes it cheap as there is plenty of that around and it’s easy to manufacture. If you look at those compounds you get a totally different story. For now the only intended application for such compounds is in some of the submarine sonar domes. Also in Compressed Natural Gas carriers. If they wanted to use steel in such carriers, it would require a hold wall of 1m concrete steel to reach their required safety level. Needless to say they would have little cargo and a hugh empty weight. Therefore they want to use compounds for that application. But even then the safety requirements are too high and the idea is just rising with a few (4 or 5) designs on the drawing boards.
I expect that this will become reality in the near future as Natural Gas has become increasingly important. Once those compounds are used, I think they will start using them in warship construction too. Submarines would then be easily capable of diving much deeper, although it should also be mentioned that some compounds have some serious weaknesses too. Shafing resistance, acids, chemicals, temperature differences are some of them depending on which compound is used.
As for structural strength, they are calculated for a hull life. The hull is of sufficient thickness to withstand all those years of constant corrosion. They X-ray a hull to know the thickness every once in a while.
One of the drawbacks of the strenger steel versions, like HY-80 and other high tensile strength sorts of steel, is that you can achieve the same strength with less material. For example a hull of 5cm thick HT Steel can be equally strong as 10cm thick “normal steel”. This is good as the weight of the HT Steel will be much lower, so there is more stuff to add. BUT, here is the tricky thing, they’ll last much less long. Corrosion on both sorts of steel goes equally fast, this means that after one year, the HT Steel example only has 4cm left while the other one still has 9cm left. This means that the first, strong, hull would have lost 20% of its thickness and of course a proportional equal part of strength compared to only 10% for the second, weaker hull. Hence the downgrading of the stronger steel versions is higher.
The “grating” you often see in ships is also caused by this thinner hull. The wind dents these hulls so you can see the construction frames inside. They actually dent and tear easier than regular steel too. But, as said, it saves a LOT of weight.
Pit, and others, sorry for the late reply.
Glonass is by no means reliable as :
– There are only 13 satellites really operational at the moment, this gives quite a problem with your DOP (Dillution of Position), this means that if you have an accuracy of 5m with a DOP of 3, then your accuracy is only 15m. The DOP depends on where your satellites are. You’d want the bearing lines to be straight on top of eachother, meaning you want one satellite in your zenith, one on te E and one in the W (or N-S or the other 14 combinations), with only 13 satellites, this is very unlikely, even with GPS this is unlikely.
-They haven’t given the basis of their system. GPS uses WGS 84, which means World Geodetic System 84, based on a bunch of Geoides chosen by countries. This WGS (preceded by WGS72) will soon be adapted again and is also used as the bases of Charts/maps in the world. Now comes the problem, Russia doesn’t use WGS 84 for Glonass. They don’t use any of our WGSs nor have they released their own Chart/Mapping system. This means that if you use a Glonass and use one of the GPS Software packadges (including the WGS charts), you will have a different situation. As they haven’t released their system, you can only take their charts. And of course we don’t know how accurate these charts are themselves…
Garry I am not comparing this to GPS (US) or other systems, that happens too much over here.
Basically all systems have problems like the ones you mentioned about GPS.
If we are to compare these systems than we come to this:
-GPS has a smaller inclination than Glonass, which means that above its inclination, it is impossible to have a DOP of 1 (which means one satellite in your Zenith, and others in best position), due to this, Glonass has a better DOP, is more accurate near the Poles (which is logical as they used the North Pole much more as their area of operation.
-GPS is less accurate due to its limited number of frequencies (only 2, while Glonass uses a whole bunch of them, although they will have to limit that due to complaints of too much frequency use by international groups).
Now, as you can see, there is a bunch of advantages in Glonass, but, due to the deficiencies, the system is not fully working as it should. And of course due to Russian inflexibility by not providing their Chart works, it is hard to use it.
With GPS, it should also be said that there are two frequencies and a bunch of codes and correstion systems. SBAS for example. Basically there are GPS receivers with an accuracy of 3cm, used in laboratories.
The problem with that accuracy, again, is that even WGS 84 is not as accurate as that… So that if you plot some position or building on these charts, there is some trouble! Strangely but for now the charts and basic system is the lacking part of the system and not the technology.
This doesn’t take away that for now the Glonass is much less reliable than GPS (although the latter has shown some errors of sometimes 8nm).
Shadow, there already was a plan for new Su-33, at first there would be an upgraded version with better electronics matching the Su-30MKK, the version after that would be equiped with Yakhont/Moskit and other anti-ship missiles. Not sure if they will go through with that, if the carriers are indeed to become smaller, than this aircraft would simply be too large (which is already a problem now).
www. A C I G . org, standing for Air Combat Information Group. (but the forum has a Naval subforum which is interesting and the site has plenty of interesting articles too)
Someone must have been deleting this. Why so? Are we in a fight here? More than half of the info in here comes from that forum and by that it should remain respected.
There is no such thing as a “second Amur”, in fact, there is no such thing as an Amur at all, for the moment. Kronstadt was only laid down in July, the third one a few weeks ago. There was no Amur building at any moment. The “Kobra” picture that surfaced was just Sankt-Petersburg herself under construction.
Sorry for the waiting, if you send me a PM I’ll be able to help you out. Also check the www.****.org forum, there is a thread on the Kapusta/Ural project in there, with the thoughts about the hull idea too. Haven’t got the time to read and post it here though.
Glonass is by no means reliable. It’s degraded and the system is just very very very faulty as they didn’t release their world system yet.
Only God knows…
Even Mr. Putin himself probably doesn’t have a clue (certainly on the operable part).
The one you show is a Priz type DSRV, they really don’t go that deep.
Mir is probably 1837K.
That’s not a suggestion Austin that is a real fact (you only seem to agree with facts when it fits with the Russian-is-best supposition)
It’s a general fact in physics that a round/sperical shape has the best division of forces compared to other shapes. That is also why Batiscaphs, the very deep diving vessels are of a round/cilindrical shape.
The Mystic is a good example of that.
And why do you othewise think the Russian subs have a cilindrical pressure hull (s)? Because the other shape is better?
Haha, that’s the “at anchor/moored” flag. It isn’t necessarily the national flag, but often it’s done so, although not officially a national flag as the dimentions aren’t “official”.
As for “hydrodynamically advanced”, that’s a wrong impression. The highest speed shape underwater is a “cigar”,every transverse cross section has to be a circle, then you have the fasted shape below the waves. That is also the idea behind a torpedo.
As for the “teardrop”, it gives better stability and has advantages over a “cone shape” because the broader part in front creates a certain turbulation that makes the rest of the body have less drag/turbulences. So it’s better than a cone/missile shape, but it’s slightly worse than a “cigar” (revolution body).
Don’t forget that Virginia uses plenty of features from SeaWolf, all in all it won’t be that much of a waste.


Both pictures of Tigr, both courtesy of Ilya Kurganov.
Pantera:
The sources, are all the mentioned books, another one is “Submarine Warfare, an Illustrated History” written by Antony Preston.
And your sources say “one of”, which basically means what it says, “one of”, not “the most”. And neither do they compare Typhoon to any of the three mentioned subs.
Here you have something on Triomphant, it says: It’s a 1000 times more silent than its predecessor (Le Redoutable), later on in the text: Le Redoutable compared to Le Triomphant makes the sound of a helicopter compared to a car.
etc.
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/triompha/index.htm
(there’s also a nice drawing if you go to “Caractéristiques principale”.
As for Ria Novosti, well I don’t think it needs much explanation… Neither do the videos. Do you really think you can walk out with a movie of a rusty sub and bunch of bad behaving submariners? In front of a camera you’ll see them all laugh, once you get closer the story changes. On Navy days they often go home with the remainders of the organiser’s fridge not to mention the begging for food if there is a foreign warship visiting their port.
Not to mention, they killed an Akula, you really believe that kind of things??? A bit naïve no? The only moment I’d believe something like that is when it is filmed through an LA or Trafalgar’s camera. Not through a media one.
As for Typhoon, they were meant to be scrapped, only now they have seen the big option it offers. The massive size allows it to take about every system they want to install in it. Cheap solution compared to building all new subs.
The maintenance cost, that is because India wanted to keep Chakra in a very good state. By then the Russians were spending probably not even 10% of what India spent on their subs.
Oh yes and there is also the fact that both Le Triomphant and Vanguard use Pumpjets along with a single reactor. Also Ohio uses a single reactor and that reactor is capable of Natural convection, at which speeds is unfortunatly unknown, the most probably numbers lay at 5-10kts.
As already mentioned “better” is not the word. It offers better steering, but also has the disadvantage of slowing down as all four of the blades have to be used to keep her on her heading. A hard thing to do and for nuclear subs it would make more noise and slow them down. For small subs no problem, short distances, less environmental problems. For larger diesel subs, their operational theatre is again a bit rougher than the Baltic and often currents have worse effects, add to it the already hard course-keeping of the sub.
But, due to the four rudders, the sub is capable of turning around much faster than a normal sub, and as an extra advantage it offers better bottoming capability, which is for a nuclear sub not a likely thing to do anyway.
Steering has always been a pain in the *ss for submarines as their propellor is behind the rudders and not in front of it as with surface ships. In fact the LA or Ohio class were the first submarines in the world to be capable of turning (altering course 180°)within 4 times their own length. Not sure which one of the two it was.
This is possible with normal rudders, but an for an SSK a much shorter turning circle and manoeuvrebility come in handy.
And as mentioned before the forces of a heavier submarine on the X-tail are rather annoying too.