Many KGB ships behind every fleet, so certainly behind the UK’s too.

Can you prove that Alpha’s didnt went below 400m , when their Titanium alloy hull could have allowed it to dive deeper than 1000m

You’d have to ask Gatorfrey for that, and as one of his resources is an Alpha officer, he very well knows that.
They can go deeper, but didn’t do so.

Material is one option, yet all of the submarine builders use nearly the same material, although it has a different name. So basically to reach the same strength as a cilindrical hull with a different shaped hull you have to add thickness.

Trident, yes sometimes safety factor is different, I think the French generally used 1.6, although indeed 1.7 is more common (and logically so). A note in this regard is that if Compressed Natural Gas development goes through, I predict the use of compounds instead of steel for the future. I thought you meant comparing them by diving depth but I wasn’t really sure about it.

What was tested was still just a dummy, didn’t carry any real warheads did it?
The picture I posted of Donskoy was taken in 2002, when she left the yard, at that moment she didn’t have any system installed. The Bulava system is still not installed on her, the only thing she carries is a test launcher, as the real system is not ready.

You certainly have a strange perception of “workhorse” then. Generally Workhorse means a high number of deployments. As for the numbers, only 6 or 7 Delta IVs were ever built, so that matches Typhoon’s numbers.

Russian Navy refused from the strategic missile system Typhoon
22.05.2004 14:11
On April, 29 the CinC of the Russian Navy Vladimir Kuroedov held the meeting where it was officially stated. The Typhoon was the 19th division of the Northern Fleet consisting of the three project 941 (Akula) subs. The subs were armed with the D-19 missiles (NATO’s reporting name SS-N-20). Almost all missiles were utilized by launching. The last sub Severstal still has 10 missiles, half of its ****nal, but in the short future they will be launched and destroyed. This type of missiles is not in the production any more; therefore the subs will be scrapped. The Typhoon subs are not real power. Except Severstal there is one more Arhangelsk which does not have arms but has many technical problems and is used as a submarine transport for the President during the exercises. Yet another one, Dmitry Donskoi is under repair for the 13th year. In July, 2002 it was reported that the sub was put into operation, but in fact it is still waiting for the missiles in the slipway. In recent years TK-202 and TK-13 were decommissioned before the end of the set period. TK-12 was decommissioned in 1996, however, it is still berthed near Zapadnaya Litsa. Ridiculously, but in 2001 it got new name, Simbirsk, and the near sponsor, the city of Ulyanovsk. There have been different proposals how to use the subs. One was using them as tourist vessels, once the sub was used… for carrying fruits to the oil workers based in Dudinka, but it turned out economically inefficient. This experiment was headed by the Deputy Presidential Plenipotentiary Mikhail Motsak, former Admiral, the commander of the 1st Fleet. Today the fate of the legendary subs is clear – they will be utilized.

As for Ohio and others, “A guided tour through a Nuclear Submarine” by Tom Clancy, “Submarines of the World” by I-don’t-know-who-anymore and several others which I’ll tell you when I get them back. One was called “Modern Submarines” and was surprisingly accurate for its (non-internet) day. I’ll have a look for the writers.

“Very good crew” do you honestly think there are that many good crews in Russia? For no money and often as young as 18 years, do you think they could possibly be that good?

As for Russia/US, yes Russia is behind on US, but time will change, soon, very soon. Russia has now more than 30% of discovered Natural Gas resources in the world. One of the fields below the Barentz contains more than twice as much as Canada’s national gas reserve. As natural Gas is becoming one of the primary energy sources (and yes oil is at this moment estimated to last for only another 27-30 years), it will very soon change the positions on the market. (US has around 3% of the natural gas reserves for now). At this moment they are drilling sources that they had never ever thought of using in the past, calling them not economical profitable… They were wrong.
So the money stream is already changing direction, it will only accellerate.

As for John and Globalsecurity, my point was indeed prove and Globalsecurity doesn’t count as a proof.

I don’t have a problem with John and I respect him very much as his/their site is very large and extensive. For a beginning person it has a massive amount of information to digest and it is very interesting in that way. Yet on the other hand when you are going in more detailed things then his/their site is lacking. A logical thing of course as it would require many persons to maintain a site this big and keep it all updated.

As for questioning the silence of Russian subs and not the other way round. Pretty logical, due to the end of the Cold War, many things have been told, Submarine officers gave explanations with what they did, Navy persons wanted new toys. This is the reason why so much is known about the SeaWolf, the pro guys used several of the capabilities to convince Congress, the anti’s used them to tell it was useless or even bad to do such things. This way lots of things come up (much against the submarine community’s will). By explaining what they did, it came up what the Russians did too, the capabilities of their subs became clear and they were nonetheless weaker than NATO’s with all the trailing and pictures.
That is why no one questions them and not the other way around. Add to it all the errors and accidents happening to Russian submarines and you get the picture. K-19, K-219 and others.

Trident, they could have integrated the sail much better if they wished to do so. Yet they didn’t so it must be that this turtle back (which is btw a common name for it) is not that disadvantageous, it would have only required some extra lines, plates and tests to accomplish it.

I just stated on what the propeller of Typhoon is and how a 7 blade skewed prop can reduce cavitation and hence noise , Just one of the many features she has , I know that all good SSBN has it , Infact Le Tromp has PupmJet.

I posted the picture of that, so what’s the point of mentioning that? It really doesn’t mean anything in the way of “proving” she is one of the quietest. Btw, she is certainly one of the quietest considering there are only three better than her, Le Triomphant, Vanguard and Ohio.

Increased flow noise, the volume is much larger, with a blunt nose like Typhoon’s you have a much larger increase of waterflow creating more friction (by both shape and surface) and hence flow noise, created by accelleration of water and pressure changes. It’s btw the reason why towed arrays are only used at slow speeds, the flow noise would disturb them way too much.
Add to it that the increased displacement on its part needs extra power to propell, so, two reactors instead of one, two pump systems instead of one, two propellors instead of one, eventhough you can quieten such systems, you can eliminate all noise by not installing them (which is the case in US subs).

So basically you’d send out your worst submarines, having a larger risk of seeing them all being taken out and of course keep your very nice splendid submarine in port where they are a fixed target for ICBM and SLBMs of the enemy, I’m sure the Soviets didn’t think that way as they were scared of a first strike of US and NATO, which would then according to your logics mean that they wouldn’t retain anything. Basically I’d do it the other way around, keep the pieces of crap in port and send out the best, giving them at least some chance to escape the tailing subs and at least fire one missile (which is the reason why they wanted such a high rate of fire). And if they don’t succeed at least you still have some back up although they’d most probably wouldn’t survive anyway. But at least this gives you some chance.

Firing missiles, Severstal indeed has 10 of them and your point being? She shouldn’t train because she needs those 10 missiles?
And yes I am aware of liquid fuelled missiles (and even maintain further development ont hem) but do you have any idea why they didn’t just toss them out and keep the solid fuelled ones if that was so easy??? In that case the “super typhoons” would still be in service and the Delta’s would be gone. But that isn’t the case is it?
As for the missiles being destroyed by US-Russian treaty, you didn’t do your homework, they stopped construction of the missiles and all the others were shot in practices (that Suchkov’s statement). If US would want them scrapped than it would have demanded the remaining 10 too.

And I’m more scared of a well trained Delta IV with live missiles than of that one sub that tested a dummy missile that is not even in service. So if you think it’s not important to fire missiles then I’m sure the Indian Navy shouldn’t do tests either, the Russians tested Klub, no reason for India to do so?

Typhoons will have to wait longer than that, the first systems go to the Borei, and that will only come in 2008, the Typhoons then will still have to go in refurbishment for this missile, so more likely 2009-2010.

Would scratch that “survivable” out of it. Bigger doesn’t mean better. Delta was also doubble hulled and torpedoes are made to counter that. The outer hull is only a hydrodynamic cover nothing more than that, it doesn’t withstand impact as always thought.

The US sailors respected the Akulas as they knew it was the best USSR had, but fear was not the word. Fear they had for the UK submarines and with good reason.

As for SeaWolf argument, that was to show you that they often lie to the Congress, well not lying, just exaggerating in some areas to convince them. The Alpha’s only operated at 400m depth but they said 600m, another reason to get a SeaWolf no?

Trident, the decoy launcher seems plausible to me, the diameter, guestimated from the size of the people standing below the ship could be about 20-30cm or even larger.

It amazing to see the quitening technology gone into Typhoon to reduce its hydro acoustic signature

I’d like to see these then, please prove.

Typhoon was definately a leap from the Delta class SSBN not only in terms of capability which is able to fire a solid fuel SLBM but also quitening ,endurance and sustained under ice operation.

Was it? Again, please prove. The Delta program ran a long way and was definately one of the most successful they ever had. Otherwise they wouldn’t even have started the development of Delta II, III and IV. The quietning in Delta IV is even more apparent than in Typhoon, with anechoic tiling, huge reduction of limberholes etc. Borei will soon come out as a Delta V, which will prove you that the Delta IV is a much more capable submarine than the Typhoons were. The Typhoon was a bet, due to stability they were capable of firing more missiles without getting into trouble. Smart bet, but likely not as practical as thought.

You’re talking about pumpjets? Those can’t be made THAT small.

I think it might be some passive sonar array/hydrophone to counter trailing submarines, but I’m of course not sure about that (it also seems unlikely as it’s very near to the propellors which make a huge noise and turbulation themselves) . At first I thought it would be some kind of towed array, but there is a complete lack of cable space so that option’s out. (maybe it’s a stopping light like on cars, so that the trailing submarine can see when the Typhoon is braking :p )
Possibly some probe for taking temperature or pressure measurements, although I admit it would be a very strange place to put something like that.
So all in all I don’t know and anything could be possible, maybe someone has a better idea?

As for Pelamida, it’s the most likely, it has the small vertical bar on top, like all Pelamida’s, the only thing I see is a broader/larger wire space, which could mean they tow it a bit further from the ship. Or just a hydrodynamic reason to do so.

It’s a replenisher and it really is half a year of use, I’ve seen them being installed. The average speed of the ship is 14-17kts I think. They aren’t what you would call “cheap” either, although they are not truly expensive either as it still only counts four blades. Do notice that it’s a variable pitch prop, many changing forces on the blades. The one with that cavitation damage is not the same as the one pictured in the second picture.

Oh, sorry, I must have misunderstood your question. The milling machine needs a very good and accurate dimention input, this is what the computer is required for. It’s a highly automated system that needs few people to work, if you for example would put a human on the switches, you could practically use it too, but then the blade wouldn’t have a proper finish, most likely end up very much weakened. Basically you would get “bumps” in the blade. By letting the computer control, you have a very smooth finish.

Actually, that potato thing HAPPENED already and the ones with the Ore idea was a real idea too, this is why Rubin already made a design for that. I think the sub was Donskoy back then.

Severstal is still in service as the only really useful one, I suppose she would become that third one if they really want to go through with it, although I haven’t seen any nuclear sub reloading fuel from a ship, the only thing involving a ship is taking out the old loads.