For Sure.
..for sure various holes have yielded some scrap, but that’s a world away from whole aircraft. The issue was really about whole a/c being buried.
How Do You Keep THAT Secret…?
How could this be done secretly with thousands of people around. VACBAF employed around 12,500 people at it’s height….????? What are the chances- really…???
I had a close friend who was a manager at VACBAF throughout the war. There was no mention of any ‘buried Spitfires’. Ever.
I’ve discussed this with another friend who’s father was a manager at VACBAF throughout the war. There was/is no mention of any ‘buried Spitfires’. Ever.
I have another friend who also knew both of the above – who is still alive. He has no knowledge of any ‘buried Spitfires’….and he’s still got all his marbles. He moved away – so it’s all news to him…!
It strikes me that many of these rumours eminate from children and youths. They then garner a certain authority and mystique simply by virtue of their age. The ‘witnesses’ mentioned in the Birmingham Post/Mail/Mercury article were aged about Fifteen at the end of the war. Need any more be said….??????
I’ve heard endless rumours of buried a/c and engines. I think most originate from spotty adenoidal yoofs, – and then get repeated by folks who should – by and large know better. Ironically, stuff was buried (Not at VACBAF.), but then retreived when the value ofscrap metal went up again. Whatever – the basic fact is, there really have not been any meaningful finds of buried a/c or engines in the UK – to my knowledge. These stories are like candies, everyone seems to want one. There is NO shortage of these stories, but, it seems, a complete absence of FACTS.
Some years ago, the ‘buried aircraft’ at VACBAF were supposed to be Lancasters. Now, conveniently, they have transmoggrified into the currently fashionable Spitfires. It’ll be Camels next…..!
Predictable Response.
Pat1968;- ‘I am not sure this post even deserves a response. You clearly have never served in the military and lost a colleague and friend. I can assure you if you had you wouldn’t suggest that showing concern for the family of a fallen serviceman is childish.’
Wrong on all counts. So much for ‘clearly’….:rolleyes: As for the last point, obviously, I made no such assertion.
Whilst several people here seem to be trying to outdo each other in the righteous-indignation/moral-high-ground stakes, my basic point is that linking the Copping issue to the rescue of the a/c is simply childishly poor logic. And, yes, if the a/c’s in a container somewhere secure now, great, at least it’s protected.
Identifying remains is a wholly separate issue. Generally, the UK state/MOD has a pretty good record for dealing with it’s fallen service personnel and the upkeep of it’s cemeteries etc. If they seem to be dragging their feet, perhaps they have good reasons….. If the authorites have new information – one presumes they’ll tell the family first, rather than an open internet forum…
As for the assertions in parts of this thread that the passage of time is irrelevant – well, that’s obviously unrealistic. There is an inevitable loss of urgency after seventy-one years, frankly, it’s pointless pretending otherwise. It’s also illogical to suggest that recognising these realities by any party – infers in anyway any disrespect for the dead – or their descendants.
I don’t think that pompous moralizing automatically equates with showing either dignity or respect, but then again, millions watch ‘reality TV’ these days, so maybe I’m just old-hat.
I sincerely hope that the remains found are Copping, so that the lad can buried with some dignity. If they are not his remains what then…?
???
Snoopy -some people might agree with that -the Italian team that visited the wreck -found human remains and indicated to the relevant authorities where they were might be just a little bit suprised that they were not recovered especially when the official reason given was that they didn’t appear to be him -on the basis of no DNA sampling.
Whilst you might believe someone might go out and recover the remains – it seems to most that the effort won’t be taken now the aircraft has been recovered -maybe the aircraft was deemed more important than a potential christian burial.
There we go, it’s framed in the same terms again…. ‘More important’. I think that’s a childish view. The fact is that the a/c was being vandalised and was having parts removed at an alarming rate. No extra haste was going to bring Copping back to life fer chrissakes. Sorry, but this is just more mush.
I think what been done has been practical – and if they’ve saved the a/c from destruction – a great success.
If the remains can be found and identified in due course, clearly it’s a bonus. More/less important is really not the issue…
‘Scandal’ – What Scandal..?
This thread reads like an anoraks convention now. There is no ‘scandal’, only in the minds of few ‘enthusiasts’. All this pompous, mawkish indignation is absurd. Coppings death isn’t news or a surprise. It’s not like anyone was waiting for him to walk back out of the desert at any moment…..!
I’m pleased if the a/c has been saved. There was a need for speed, given the vandalism the local rif-raf had inflicted in a few short weeks.
There are many, many thousands of bodies out there in that vaste wasteland. If Coppings body has been found, fine;- give his remains a dignified burial. If however, they have not been found, given the difficult situation in the region, then that’s fine too. At least the a/c has been recovered. There’s no reason his remains cannot be found at a later date.
I’m sure that the UK officials in Egypt will have done their best in the difficult circumstances.
I’m not heartless, but this mawkish posturing really is perfectly absurd. :rolleyes:
No.2 Pool, Bristol.
There was a major ATA Pool (No.2 I think..) based at Whitchurch, the old original Bristol Airport, now long-gone.
Ullstad.
Recorded as;- Capt. Olaf Ullstad (Norwegian)
Nope.
No, sorry, he’s not recorded. Of course, he might have been attached to one of the satellite units such as Cosford etc.
Alex’s Damaged Chute From Bail-out 13/10/43.
AADH.
13/10/43.
Spit’ IX, MJ190. Engine-failure in dive. Got rid, Rugeley area. A/c impacted Cannock.
A/c TWO.
Pilot impacted tailplane on exit and knocked unconcious. Came to and deployed ‘chute. Whole section of ‘chute torn-away/missing, canopy only held together by a thread. Fast descent, landed without further injury.
Despite the typewritten note on the ‘chute stating 12th, it did in fact occur on the 13th – ‘lucky for some’…!
Photo of remains of ‘chute;-
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
?
Always find the description of ‘stock’ amusing when you see 1990’s radios – high pressure oxygen and fold forward seat !
What do you expect…Hand Signals…??? :rolleyes:
Ah-ha….
Antoni;- Thanks for that – I will have a go. I knew I’d have to figure this out one day…!
VACBAF Crashes. (Some.)
Rob68;-
Some of the incidents that you mention;-
AADH;-
18/07/42.
Spit’ EP615;-
The motor cut as the magneto-drive sheared. As he was too low, flying below 10/10ths cloudcover, he couldn’t glide-clear of the congested area or bail-out without risk to area below, so he elected to put it into some gardens. AADH suffered cuts and bruses, – no one else was hurt. It ended-up in the garden of 468, Lichfield Road, Wednesfield. A/c was TWO.
(ITV screened a documentary ‘The Extraordinary Mr.Spitfire.’ on 09/09/07 which covered this incident, as witnessed by two schoolboys, Les Burrows, of Willenhall, and Fred Whitehouse, of Bilston.)
Sanders.
23/10/42.
Spit’.
Fl/Lt Sanders a/c broke-up and he was killed.
A/c TWO
AADH.
13/10/43.
Spit’ IX, MJ190. Engine-failure in dive. Got rid, Rugeley area. A/c impacted Cannock.
A/c TWO.
I have a photo of Fl/Lt Sanders somewhere, but I haven’t got a clue how I’d post it on here.
Hope that helps…:)
Saywha..?
Since the gas wasn’t compressed in the mask, why would butter be a problem – unless the sandwich had some mustard on it too…??? 🙂
Lovely.
The Comet looks Top Hole – great photos too. I can’t wait to see – and hear – it fly. Great to see they have refitted the skid – that should save a few bent u/c’s….:) Roll-on Summer…..!