Rafale Weight
Since Dassault isn’t giving us any info on Rafale’s weight, I think Scorpion’s on the right track. Why not work backwards from datapoints we do have for takeoff weights?
We have two datapoints:
Rafale B: 16.4t with 1x 1250l tank, 2x MICA EM and 2x Magic II AAMs (according to a flight test report in 1999)
Rafale M: 21.4t with 2x 2000l tanks, 1x SCALP cruise missile, 4x MICA (according to FoxThree #5, i.e. Dassault)
So that give’s us:
Rafale B:
Take-off weight: 16,400kg
Internal Fuel: 4,500kg
1250l tank: 1015kg (fuel) + 100kg (tank) + 165 kg (pylon)
2x Mica: 220kg
2x Magic II: 170kg
2x Pilots: 200kg
–> Empty Weight: 10,030kg
Rafale M:
Take-off weight: 21,400kg
Internal Fuel: 4,700kg
2x 2000l tanks: 3250kg (fuel) + 480 (tanks) + 330 kg (pylons)
1x SCALP: 1300kg (missile) + 165kg (pylon)
4x Mica: 440kg
1x Pilot: 100kg
–> Empty Weight: 10,635kg
Rafale C is supposed to be approx. 350kg lighter than the two-seater and approx. 620kg lighter than Rafale M. So I get a range of 9,650kg-10,000kg for Rafale C…
I didn’t subtract the weight of chaff/flares, oil or the onboard coffee maker :p, but that’s still far from 9t.
Honestly, I’m not surprised. It would be a miracle if the Rafale hadn’t gained any weight in the last 10 years. I don’t know a single aircraft that doesn’t gain weight over initial targets (the same thing goes with costs – manufacturers always promise more than they can deliver). Dassault are good, but they’re not THAT good… 😀
Also, I think the “10t class” argument is bogus. 10 years ago, Dassault already knew that the Rafale B and M were heavier than the C (as all three models were flying at the time), but Rafale was still described as a “9t class” fighter. So if it’s now “10t class”, it’s not because Dassault suddenly realized that the Rafale B and M existed; I think it’s because Rafale gained weight!
Anyway, if Rafale has gained 600kg, that’s still half as much as Typhoon has gained over the same period. So the gap in T/W ratios has in fact narrowed. +1 point for Rafale… :p
And although I know the Typhoon fans love to talk about T/W ratios, I think T/W is overrated. There are many other reasons to prefer Rafale to the Typhoon. More about that in my next post… 😉
@ PilotTHX & Fonk
I’ve been reading this thread for a while now, and felt compelled to join the forum just so that I could ask both of you one simple question:
Reread all your posts on this thread – mates, do you have any idea how petty you seem? (Traduction: Vous etes pe****, les mecs)
Actually, I have a second question for you:
Do you feel proud when you single-handedly bring down this thread with all your nonsense and your flames attacking others who are trying to have a civilized discussion here? 😡
Look, I’m French and I personnally love the Rafale, but when I see guys like you attack guys like Scorpion, it makes me sick. How many times does he have to say that he likes both the Rafale and the Typhoon?
I guess you just cannot get it into your heads that some people on this planet can like more than just their own country’s planes, or more than one plane at a time. You see, some people come to these forums because they are aviation enthusiasts, and NOT because they want to engage in useless bouts of jingoistic nonsense (Traduction: vous etes des chauvins, les gars).
Fonk, you know why you keep getting banned from forums? It’s not because maybe you got SOME of your facts right and people don’t like it when you expose weaknesses in their arguments, it’s not because the “Anglo-Saxons” are undemocratic, and it’s definitely not a language issue.
You see, it’s a question of style. And people on this forum can read your style loud and clear, even if they don’t always understand what you’re trying to say. Your style screams that you guys don’t want to engage in a civilized discussion, and that all you’re waiting for is an excuse to flame someone. Hell, maybe you get a kick out of having insults hurled back at you… :confused:
I’ve read some of your posts on French forums complaining about how people on English forums refuse to discuss things with you, about how they’re the one starting the flaming, and about how “undemocratic” some moderators were when they banned you. I don’t know what happened there and then, and maybe you’re right on some points. But I do know that you’re no angel, and that here and now, you and PilotTHX are the ones who started the flaming…
But at least I’ll give you some credit. You do seem to know a thing or two about aerodynamics, and have bothered to gather some interesting facts on the Rafale, even if you seem chronically unable to discuss these with anyone else.
PilotTHX, you don’t even pretend to add anything to the debate. I’m sorry, but when you call Scorpion a “gugusse”, the joke’s on you mate.
Luckily, there are plenty of French guys on this forum and elsewhere who are capable of playing the game and staying within the boundaries of a civilised discussion. Congrats to guys like Kovy and TMor – I know you guys are rabid fans of the Rafale… 😀 And kudos to Scorpion for doing the same even though I’m sure that deep down he has a soft spot for the Typhoon over the Rafale… 😉
Anyway, I hope that PilotTHX and Fonk can learn from the others on this forum. Because I certainly have learnt some interesting facts about the Rafale from them.
With all that off my chest, I promise my next post will be back on topic… 😉