AspisMirage 2000 did superbly with dumb bombs as recently as during the Kargill conflict. In many cases the only advantage of the smart weapons is to bring ****loads of money to the industrials.
Nic
Yes, as long as there is no threat in the area, it’s more likely a waste of money to throw LGBs (unless you have an old stock about to expire that you want to get rid of 😀 ), since, at least from low altitude, modern aircrafts in good weather should have no problem killing a howitzer with dumb bombs and saving the $ for other targets.
This is from A7 low pass – Mk82 and the visibility wasn’t perfect, because they had used napalms in the previous run. A Typhoon or Rafale should be able to do much better.
AspisAccording to the updated defencenet article, the accident happened because of a defective ball bearing, which broke and on its turn caused the rest of the binding mechanism of the wheel to break and release the wheel. Also, now defencenet says that the parachute wasn’t used…
And since HawxAce managed to find this topic, i may as well add the updates from HAF’s website.
March 7-April 1, 340 “Fox” Squadron partecipated in TLP in Albacete, Spain, with 4 F16 Block 52+. The other partecipants in the trainning course were Poland with F16 B52+, Denmark with F16 MLU, USA with F15E, Italy with Typhoon and Tornados and France with Mirage2000-5.
“Red Air” was formed by Swiss F18, French Alpha Jets, Spanish Typhoons, US F15E and 2 greek F16s from 340 Sqn.
The pilots of 340 ranked 1st in strike missions and scored the highest success percentage in A-A shots with zero casualties.
http://www.haf.gr/el/news.asp?id=4991&archive=2&page=3
– May 5th, visit of the Red Arrows to Andravida AB. They will stay up to May 25th (good weather for trainning).
– Unfortunately the only official photos from Souda AB activity in HAF’s site are those of the visit of the French Airforce Chief.
http://www.haf.gr/el/news.asp?id=5085&archive=2&page=1
Nothing on the Belgian F16s that were in Greece for excercize and stayed, nothing for the Qatari or French Mirage. They ‘re probably saving money on the photographic service… 🙁
AspisIn my opinion the Euro should have never been introduced at all and it will f*ck up many European economies. Greece isn’t the only country, the next on the list are Italy, Spain and Portugal, all countries with an entirely different way to deal with money. They all like to spent much more than they have, live from loans and someday they discover that they have debts they can’t pay and call for the others to help them out. In the end the folks of the other countries have to suffer from the abuse of the “pigs” as you call them and will ultimately end up in the same situation as no one can afford to pay more than half the damn EU bills. The entire concept of the EU and the Euro is destined to fail sooner or latter, Europe isn’t the US with a number of refugees founding a nation, it’s a number of nations each with its own long history, it’s impossible to merge all this and before we’ll see a success we are more likely to see the fall.
I don’t know whether the euro will fail, it’s a possibility… I think too, that the EU, the way it functions today, it’s… disfunctional. Something has to change or it won’t last long. The problem of the euro is this: it wasn’t the plan of the PIG’s. Probably Helmut Kohl was the mastermind behind it. And if there’s one thing he wasn’t, it’s idiot. He knew very well (as well as Mitterand), that in Europe there were different types of economies. So Germany should have a plan on how to do this. I don’t know, maybe after he left, his successors were unable to follow his plan… Personally i think it was a brilliant plan to ensure bright future for Germany in the 21st century. The weak spot is exactly the part of doing something to build a common european identity. Not necessarily renounce the original ethnicity, but cultivate this tendency of common “family” or “coalition”. For example, most people don’t even know how many members are in the EU. At school, children should learn a bit of the history of the other members. Nothing of this happens.
The Americans originally were colonists from around the globe, passed through a civil war, but eventually they acted as a one nation. I used to believe that Europe could become a sort of federation once, but the course the things took, showed that something was missing. Maybe the politicians didn’t take as priority to inspire the original european dream, each seeking to his own interests.
I don’t know whether this is reversible, but if it is, it’s something that will come from France and Germany. But i can’t see Merkel being a new Kohl…
do you think Greece should just leave the EU? perhaps look eastward?
Greece wasn’t ready to join the euro in 1999. Our PM was saying it was, well, he was lying (now we know beyond reasonable doubt). But it’s too late to change that. Leaving NOW, is insanity for Greece. You can’t change currency in the middle of the crisis. The external debt of Greece, for some years now, is in euros. This won’t change if Greece returns to drachma and devaluates. Simply you need more drachmas to pay. A lot more. The banks would collapse because of the bank run with no exception (while now, not all are exposed to greek bonds).
The big problem of Greece is that after the fall of the junta, the socialists made everything too “loose”. In fact, the usual saying of “Greece was living above its means”, is only half the truth. The other half, is that “Greece was living not taking advantage of its resources”. For example, when the state gets 52 bln taxes and lets 25 bln vanish in tax evasion, that’s not living above your means. Simply you arrive to the point, where the poor chaps that are paying the 52 bln, can’t finance anymore those who don’t pay the 25 bln.
Ι could speak for hours, but an image is worth 1000 words. The man in the red jacket here, is the chief of the syndicate of the workers in the pubblic energy enterprise, “talking” to his superiors (he belongs to the socialist ruling party):
He is demanding to know the criteria that were used to give some jobs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUFl65gh8OI
Here is the T-Shirt with stripes he goes ballistic, because the administration board, “dared” make a reunion without the presence of a unionist representative:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En_3rICinMQ&feature=related
Really, this man is shouting to his superiors! Amongst other things “This is not a junta!”…
No wonder foreign investors were driven away from Greece. And the current goverment is hesitant to face its own “children” that has taught to act this way for years.
This happens when a country is “too leftist”.
For me, the best thing that could happen, would be to have a German director in every pubblic enterprise where these unionists exist. And throw them out of the window as soon as they raise voice.
As long as things like this don’t change, Greece can go to Mars to live on her own and in 20 years will be bankrupt again, with the Martians fleeing to other galaxies.
AspisThey should make the EU a free trade block, drop the rest of the junk and not let it grow out of control again like it has now.
Well, that would be a regression to the EEC (pre-Maastricht), but i don’t think Germany is ready to do that just yet. After all, the euro wasn’t a greek idea… Germany today dominates the trade surplus of the eurozone… And the continued growth has to do exactly with the german (and french, but the Germans have taken the initiative more for some years now) long term plans. Widening the euro-zone slowly but steadily, ensures a more receptive market area for your products. Don’t think of just know, where China or India are still thinking of their growth. Tomorrow China will start exporting cars and machinery too. And will be strong enough to ask for better trade agreements and less obstacles to her exports in EU. Let’s take for example a country outside the EU, left to her own destiny, with poor growth, not much purchase power. What’s is it going to buy? The German car or the chinese one? The chinese. But let’s say that this country is taken in EU and is growing and gets a high value currency with more purchase power. Oh, the chances for the german car suddenly seem brighter.
That’s what all is about. The euro is “equalizer”. Each country retains its “specialty” of the moment it enters. For example, it won’t be easy for a country that doesn’t produce cars, to start doing so from scratch and compete at the same terms with the Germans. So they will become german market and they must find another field where they can compete better, because with the same currency and rules, you can’t beat the “establishment”.
That’s why the EU has been expanding rapidly. To put as many new countries into the hallway of the euro and later bring them in. Medium and small size countries are especially good for this. On the other hand, you see german reluctance about Turkey for example, because Turkey has big ambitions, big population and has set the basis for her own industry and at competitive prices. Turkey will get in the EU to become more powerful than Germany, not to simply become a market. They will pursue to give orders, not take them. Unlike a small country, a big country can count on the domestic market to grow and become competitive with other big players. The talk about risk of immigration is a dust cloud for not saying this more inconvenient truth.
Britain’s reluctance to join the euro is also explained by the fact that they saw what was behind this german-french plan and a plan that wasn’t british, couldn’t be in the best interest of Britain…
AspisTo cut a long story short, albeit offtopic, with all the faked statistics and living way beyond what is affordable Greece should have never been allowed to gain the Euro at all and they should just be dropped. Btw it’s more the French banks which were/are worried about Greece, unfortunately Merkel is a weak character and Sarkozy got his will.
You know what the problem is? You are right. But as Juncker said, France and Germany knew about it , but did nothing because they were getting all the contracts in Greece… The greek debt was over 100% since the 90s, that wasn’t a surprise. The surprise was the deficit which our ministers were hiding under the carpet… And Germany probably knew more than us how bad things were, because every german company was bribing the hell out of every minister. At the end, neither you nor us (the population) were asked about the entrance in the euro… Eventually you may force Greece out of the euro with a combination of political and economic means, but, this doesn’t change history…
The other problem, is that, while it’s easy for a German to say “God, free us of the PIGs!”, as your minister of economics recently said, can you imagine where the euro would climb without the “PIG”s? The PIGs are like the weights in a baloon. You need them too. Say you kick out the PIGs. The Euro goes up. You know what happens next? The next weak players will start suffering because they will lose competitivity in their already effort to have a feeble growth. If these are Spain or Italy, it’s over for the EU. The PIGs, however this may sound a paradox, are like the brake in the car, where Germany is the accelerator. You need both the accelerator and the brakes…
Well, think of it in the big scheme of things. If the EU manages to surpass this crisis, the EU integration will have accelerated by many years. It will actually do what otherwise would take too long to become true. And in 50 years from now, the issue you have with Greece now will be a meaningless story to laugh at.
AspisAnd the key point you missed is that the US is a nation state – a republic. It has centralised tax and a centralised fiscal structure but with state local tax autonomies just as Germany , France, UK etc have, but on a much smaller scale than the US.
That’s true. In fact, the idea of EU sold to the populations before 2000 was about a federalist union of the “people” with common european dream and values. If this doesn’t happen (which till now it hasn’t), the EU won’t go much further. Or at least, it won’t be the big geopolitical power that Kohl and Mitterand had envisioned. History isn’t waiting for anyone and dislikes voids of power. The rising “stars” of the East now seem good as markets and consumers, but in the long run, they will become competitors in every sector and if the EU isn’t ready, the center of gravity will shift towards Peking in the future.
The EU is having childhood diseases. It will either learn to treat them or throw the baby off the window.
AspisThe Greece had a good living financed by debts and some still have it by further ones. In short they have no own money for a single soldier or the personal pensions for some years already. They are unable to pay that debts really. In short the ordinary European tax-payers will be forced to do that. Whatever will happen the Germans will have the highest burden to free the Greece from their debts. Our present bill is 123 bn € and it is still rising. 😡
Well, when you are so open hearted and kind people that you just can’t help yourself helping others in trouble out of your golden heart, what can you do? 😀
Seriously Sens, let me explain you the situation a bit. 2010 closed with the greek budget lacking 24 bln euros. Out of these, 15 bln are interest rates towards creditors (your banks) and 9 bln cover various functioning expenses of the wider general goverment (for some reasons, Eurostat now includes in the general goverment’s expenditure also expenses that aren’t included in other countries, but anyway). However amazing it may seem to you, if tomorrow the greek state should make halting of payments, the tax income can cover both wages and pensions. It won’t be able to cover the pubblic investment program (about 4 bln) and some expenses (like funds to municipalities, to weird syndicate funds etc). If this year the deficit was to fall to 7,4% (as in theory predicted), the deficit would be 17 bln euros, out of which, again, 15 bln would be interest rates and 2 bln “greek gov expenditures”. And so on, with the 15 bln being steady or rising according to the year. Actually in order to bring down the deficit, the gov is axing each year more money, because of the recession the measures bring. So, while Greece would be no doubt in trouble, things wouldn’t be as dramatic as you may think. Provided that our goverment would put as priority the payment of wages and pensions and not the payment of creditors. There would be collateral damage of course to some prominent greek banks, but, Iceland lived with it, some would lose their money, income would drop, but in a recession it already drops anyway… Of course maybe, you Germans will come and help us then again, out of your good heart, but , once your banks take the hit too, i have the feeling you won’t be so eager to help anymore… I mean, i know that you help us because you love the greek people, but i will start to worry about that ending at some point 😀
Now, the greek goverment is trying not to default, wanting to avoid all this. The problem is, they are too “socialists” to go against their own creation and both them and the IMF/EU team failed to see that the tax evasion had to be dealt with immediately and not starting doing something about it after 1 year… I supported the IMF/EU plan, even though it was unrealistic, because it forced reforms, although some incomplete, without which, even if we defaulted and stopped paying anything to creditors, the state would keep producing deficits because of the way it works. The other good side is that the 2 ruling political parties are losing finally strength. This is even more important, because you can’t expect the salvation from those that ruined the country.
I understand your anger, (your populist press has helped in bloating the issue too with absurd stories), but that’s the situation. The question here is: Is there something to do to avoid having the tax payer coming out of this with damage? Shouting simply “we ‘re paying the wages and pensions of the greeks” doesn’t lead anyway. If anything, it led to a completely unrealistic “bail out” plan, just because Merkel wanted “greek blood in the arena” to satisfy the thirst of her enraged voter. It’s like having an obese person trying to lose weight. There is the right way to do it and there is the “crazy” way to do it. If you tell him “you will lose 30 kgs per week by running 20h a day and drinking only water”, he ll end up dead instead of just losing weight.
For the sake of the german tax payer, i hope the solution that the Eurogroup will decide won’t be new loan. Because then yes, the more you unload the banks from the debt, the more likely that the tax payer will pay the probable greek haircut. Because more debt won’t make Greece come out of the recession. And without growth, the haircut is guaranteed. The problem is also that the greek gov, having failed to do something significant about tax evasion, resorted to squeezing the usual victims, those that were always paying taxes. This kills the economy and you get into a vicious circle of recession–> missing deficit target —> more taxes to increase income —> more recession and so on. In fact, we started with debt 120% and now goes towards 160% because of the recession. When you have 52 bln tax income and the tax evasion is about 25 bln and you wait 1 year before restructuring the tax collecting mechanism…
If you ask me, if you want to get all your money back with interest, you should send a inspector on daily bases on every greek ministry (not once every 3 months) and allow for something like the eurobond or arrange for ECB to sell back through loan the greek bonds it has. The ECB bought them at 70% of their price, so Greece could benefit 30% haircut without the ECB losing anything. But thanks to your populist press and its myths, you are more prone to accept another “give blood to the arena” unrealistic plan, than something that would actually allow Greece to return to growth and pay back.
Oh well, the decision will finally be of your goverments. As you ‘ve seen, in the press you hear everyone speaking about what Greece will do except for the greek PM. He is waiting for instructions.
At least the Irish have a chance, because their PM was smart enough to think exactly of that: “How will i get out of the recession, with a plan that will bring recession? I must retain my main weapon, the low corporate tax rate, which mysteriously the “friends” in EU wanted him to raise. They may have to restructure too their debt eventually, but they will be able to restart the engine much easier.
AspisI read the link. None of the options addresses the real problem, which will never go away however much money is thrown at it in whatever dressing you want to call it. The theory was doomed from the start. It has been tried before and never worked. You cannot have common currency without common taxation and common fiscal policy. I.e. it won’t work unless the EU is a fiscal entity. And that it will never be.
That’s true and actually if you follow him for a long time, he agrees. Eventually the EU will have to decide whether it will continue towards the infamous “european integration” or stay more like the “EEC”. What he describes there is more of a briefing for the acute problem and since it was for a german newspaper, he had space issues.
His more extended view, is that the EU will have to act as “U” (union), not re-inventing the wheel, but following the US example. Taxation policy can allow for differences but the states will have to give more economic authority to Brussels. It’s characteristic, that for years, the various states were negating Eurostat audit powers to their economic ministries. Imagine why… If this had been done, this crisis would have been prevented or would have been less acute.
At the end, does the US have each state issuing its own bond? No. And how does the US manage to keep its weaker states from falling too far behind? By recucling part of the surplus of the more “prosperous” states through investments. Giving loan to already debt loaded state, is counterproductive. Growth is what’s needed for someone weak in order to gain force.
And of course, all this does require a more centralised economic policy, so that the German won’t tremble at the idea of his money being wasted. The problem is that you can’t have it both. Eventually the big boys of EU will have to decide what they want.
Aspis“There are other theoretical options , but are not under exame, although possibly less “brutal”, but politically hard to pass.”
Indeed there are including the “nuclear” option of breaking up the eurozone which has worked about as well as most commentators without euro blinkers said 10 years ago.
That is the only fiscally sane course and in any other situation would have been made a year ago. Now it might be forced on the Europhiles with al the attendant political name calling that will follow.
Sorry for thread drift………….I was lead into it!;):)
That is certainly an option and quite frankly, the most profitable for UK… Mind you that until the periphery of Europe is in austerity, such tendencies will grow too, you may have heard the scenario of the “2 eurozones”… The problem is that leaving the euro, is easier for those financially well, than for those in trouble. Changing currency is complicated as it is, without the added headache of doing it in the middle of a crisis. But Germany is unlikely to leave a mechanism that is her golden investment, specially for the future. It’s the european weapon against the emerging ecomonies.
Another alternative is in the link i posted above after i edited. The author has taught in several UK universities too (Essex, East Anglia, Cambridge, Glascow).
Another way is the “american way”, the eurobonds, which would relieve the pressure from the indebted countries, but this has been ruled out from Germany.
AspisWhen I was at school we were taught that the main ethos that lies behind the EU is the interdependency of nations; a system where we help each other when things go wrong to avoid ending up in the situation that caused the two worst conflicts in human history. As this has been the most peaceful half century in European history I would say the basic idea of that is working.
Personally I would sooner live in a country that helps others out, rather than one that spends that same money on munitions. Am I the only one?
MH
My dear friend, at school they teach various things, maybe good for growing morale values, but far from true…
The real ethos that lies behind the EU is the interdependecy of banks and sovereign debt. This graph was true 1 year ago.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/05/02/weekinreview/02marsh.html
The world record in deficit reduction is held by the following countries:
1) Israel: Deficit reduction by 11,1% in 3 years (1981-1983)
2) Denmark by 12,4% in 4 years (1982-1986)
3) Finland and Sweden by 13,3% in 7 years (1993-2000).
In all cases, the global growth was positive, they had control over their national currency (devaluate at will) and Israel some US monetary aid.
In the case of Greece, it was supposed to reduce the deficit from 15,4% to 3% in 3 years, with no control over its currency and with a plethora of structural problems, which make the pubblic sector especially very far away from danish standards. Not very realistic, is it… But this doesn’t really matter, because the purpose of these bail outs isn’t to be realistic, but to save the banks. During this period of time, the banks either get paid for the bonds they have and expire or sell them to the secondary market or unload them directly to the ECB in exchange for liquidity. Greece can’t avoid a haircut unless something dramatic changes. The bail out plan has failed. The fact alone that in March Greece was “congratulated” by Merkel and the at the same time was asked to sell pubblic enterprises for the value of 50 bln, shows how unrealistic it was! You can’t “reward” someone for his “hard effort” and at the same time say “well, find 50 bln more”, unless your “bail out” has utterly failed…
The problem is that the banks are still unready for the greek haircut. So there are 2 options: 1) Prolongate the greek debt. This is something the Germans like, because by now their banks have reduced their exposure. The French like it less and even less Trichet. It’s bad for Greece because the longer it waits for haircut, the bigger the haircut will be. 2) Give new loan to Greece. This is the best for the banks, the worst for Greece and for the tax payers. We will see who will win. There are other theoretical options , but are not under exame, although possibly less “brutal”, but politically hard to pass.
Bottom line is: It’s all about saving the banks. Even the greek goverment thinks first of the bankers who still don’t want to merge their banks. The more time you wait, the more the banks unload their burdon onto the states. For example, already 1/3 of the greek debt is now state debt. If a new loan will be given to Greece, to pay the banks, half of the debt will become state debt and the banks will be more free…
Or, to put it more clearly, recently the british PM said that UK wouldn’t partecipate to even a cent on a greek loan. He’s right! Why should he? Because of school-taught ethos? Outside school there’s the real life. Last year, the exposure of UK banks on greek debt was just 15 bln $. A year later is much less, because with the loan, Greece is paying the banks. So today, it could be something like 5-6 bln $. On the contrary, UK will be the most eager to loan Ireland, towards which the UK banks have still big exposure.
When the banks are safe, then the “PIG”s can do their haircut. After all, “they will have failed their – impossible to do – task”.
The other way, is the way of Iceland. Who said “let the banks sink, they invested in the wrong place, their fault, every investment has risks, they played and lost”. But it takes balls to do that…
An “alternative” proposal, more in line with the so called “european ethos” can be read here:
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2011/05/13/article-in-die-zeit-promoting-the-modest-proposal/
But this is more something the US could do. The EU is still far away from the level of political cohesion required to take this step.
Aspis4 of the 8 Belgian F16s did a sortie from Araxos to Libya for CAP. They took off with A2A armament and returned to Araxos.
The RAF Typhoons and Tornadoes that were “landing” to Souda yesterday according to defencenet, didn’t show up (Defencenet is a bit too hasty often).
http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18480&Itemid=137
According to this, 6 Norvegian F16s, are expected to Souda at night.
http://www.onalert.gr/default.php?pname=Article&catid=2&art_id=4271
Anyway, given that the leftist parties have already started with public demonstrations, they probably only refuel and continue to Italy or Malta.
AspisSome photos from the bombings (some include dead people – Gadaffi’s soldiers -, so beware).
http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18481&Itemid=139
There is one though which is quite funny:
Aspisso where are the New NATO members contributions to all of this?
didn’t Rumsfeld say that they were the best allies?
I’m sure some of them can spare a MiG-29 or F-16 or two..
There is no NATO decision yet. The permanent representatives of the member states gathered today but couldn’t arrive to a final decision. Practically those that partecipate already, do so outside a NATO mandate, but purely on their own initiative, based on their interpretation of the UN resolution.
AspisThe British Forces HQ in Cyprus anounced that the bases in Cyprus won’t be used for raids against Libya and will play only a supporting role. “There are no plans for deployment of Typhoon or Tornados from Akrotiri AB”. It says that the base hosts VC-10, E3D and Sentinels.
http://www.politis-news.com/cgibin/hweb?-A=205986&-V=articles
(cypriot newspaper)
AspisAccording to this greek defence site, all 18 RAF aircrafts have requested landing permission at Souda (not Andravida).
Also, the NATO summit of 16:00 where the green light for commitment of the alliance to Libya was to be approved, was blocked by Turkey with german support. New reunion of the NATO at midnight (greek time).
http://www.onalert.gr/default.php?pname=Article&catid=2&art_id=4237
So, if the Arab League does decide to further support the air strikes, I wonder if UAE or Qatari aircraft will actually engage in combat, or just fly ceremonially over the battlefield?
The Qataris must be having seconds thoughts. All greeks news sites yesterday were saying that Sarko had asked to let 8 Qatari M2000 to land to Souda, but they never showed up today… So they don’t seem in a hurry.
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