@Aspis: As you say, Gripen NG seems like the smart option at this point for whenever the Air Force can move forward with it`s next fighter tranche.
Most greek enthusiasts disagree, because they don’t want to face a simple reality:
1) The money for the defence budget won’t increase any time soon, as a matter of fact, it may decrease.
2) The greek economy may complete the IMF schedule (although it’s unprecedented), but the numbers and market psychology right now don’t add up. At some point a form of debt restructuring is probable.
3) There is no political will to take defence seriously or to use the deterrent politically. So there is no point in wasting more money on something expensive. All we need is a weapons platform and the presence of the swashplate AESA alone is big improvement over the fixed radar of the F16, as one greek pilot said. We can save the money for more standoff weapons, which the Swedes no doubt have no problem integrating.
4) The MoD, after we ‘ve read several rumours (politically motivated), brought to parliament the availability numbers for HAF (which should be secret, but when you don’t take things seriously…).
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5663/21680721.png
Up to 1st semester of 2010. The first line is availability for the total amount of aircrafts, the second line is availability in the active number of aircrafts. Basically the 1st one includes every aircraft considered to be in the HAF inventory (so this should include reserve units like the A-7 at Agrinion. It may also include firefighting aircrafts, because technically, they belong to HAF).
Things are very simple. If we buy an aircraft that has higher operational costs than the aircrafts we actually use, the availabilities will start falling and HAF will have to fly less.
That’s why i support Gripen NG. I prefer having with the same money 40 Gripen NGs at 74% availablilty, than 20 Eurofighters at 50% availability and less experienced pilots. We can leave the Eurofighters to those with oil wells.
Of course, since exactly the defence is not being taken seriously in Greece, we will probably end up with 20 Eurofighters or F35, for political reasons.
Given that Rafale seems poised to (finally) win in Brazil, it would seem that there`s a good amount of work-share available that Greece could potentially receive, especially given their long-term needs are on-par with Brazil (if the economy doesn`t improve longer term Gripen NGs and not F-35´s are what is viable to acquire in numbers, in any case). Greek industry certainly doesn`t have all the same capacities as Brazil, but it seems like a good workshare package could certainly be negotiated, especially if Greece is the `launch customer` for NG.
I agree.
Is any news on this floating around in the wild currently, or what? Supposedly a better approach to work-share / re-investment and cooperative projects was a goal of the new (current) defense minister, and this is right in that line…???
The only conclusion to which one can arrive by reading this thread, is that nobody knows nothing, despite his “safe information” and even defence magazines all that do is speculating. Actually Defencenet has taken up a political agenda against the gov and from strictly defence portal , now is putting its nose in pure politics, which is sad. Not to mention the quite blatant advertisement that it’s doing lately to her “prefered” aircrafts. After the article with title:
“The SUPERfighter PAK-FA will be offered to HAF, is Greece makes order of Su-35”
http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14136&Itemid=99999999
Now we have the “48 Su-35 are delivered in 2015 – Candidate for HAF – Video : Su-35 vs Eurofighter”.
http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14398&Itemid=99999999
Without mentioning that the “video” is a purely propagandistic video where the Su eats Eurofighters for breakfast. Defencenet always supported russian and Eurofighters, i guess now we know who supports the most.
So, i am personally fed up with rumours, defence magazines are having a tough time to sell (one other magazine was shut down), so they come up with all kind of unreliable information just to attract you. According to Defencenet’s safe information for example, the new procurement plan would be ready by the end of this month. Well, to much of our surprise (or maybe not), now says that will slit by 6 months-1 year.
Yes, the new MoD had said that he intends to abolish offsets and replace with local workshare for the greek industry. But the new law which would regulate this, is not ready yet. From what he said, the FREMMs and BMP-3s have the priority. So until you hear about them being singed, i wouldn’t hold my breath for new aircraft. And given the political situation, the goverment can’t sign any new big contract, up until it’s certain that won’t have to do more cuts on wages/pensions or put more taxes. Because the opposition will eat the gov alive. About 15% of shops in many areas have closed because of the recession. You can’t go out and make a bit procurement.
The poster that i made here, is the most realistic solution:
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showpost.php?p=1572099&postcount=340
* Mind you, that i had put 2014 :D.
Greece was never able to outspend Turkey. This can only worsen now. There isn’t also the same political determination of the past. At this point, what can you do? For me, the best deterrence, becomes the ability to deliver strikes inside the others’ mainland. Nobody wants his economy or infrastructure destroyed. Soldiers or pilots are expendable, the politicians don’t care, after all when they send you to war, it’s understood that it’s acceptable to get killed. But no politician wants his source of wealth to be hit. So, between more Gripens with higher availablity and more experienced pilots and less Eurofighters/Rafales with less experienced pilots, i will take the more Gripens.
P.S.: A generic news portal yesterday, referred that the French now ask about 35-40 mln for the upgrade of the Mirage2000, much more than the price of the upgrade of the previous batch, because “we ‘ve closed the production line since then”. The portal isn’t famous for its reliability, but it would agree with prices asked to India and would support the rumour reported by Defencenet about HAF thinking of getting UAE’s Mirage. Because honestly, at 40 mln, you get F16 brand new. Greece can’t give this kind of money for upgrade of a 20 year old aircraft.
Sign In
