nonpilotI’m So Glad
Hi Camaro
I’m so glad isn’t a Steppen Wolf song, it’s from the early rock trio of Cream 19967/69 Eric Clapton,Jack Bruce, and Ginger Baker. Might not be a pilot but at least I can add something to this post. Still writing by the way,Nonpilot.
like the song from steppen wolf…i’m so glad 😀
you like them, i did burn them into VCD and watch them with the home theater full blast… 😮 SOB what a feeling 😉 like orgasmic.
yes FAP is “da bes” and will remain so until the arrival of the Su-35 to FAB (i hope so) 😎
Camaro
nonpilotNice clip
Hi ELP
Wow! Wouldn’t want to be in the target zone when one of those go off. I learn a lot from your post and the flim clp. Does France and Russia produced a cluster bomb like ours? If so do you know the names and I can look them up, thanks in a advance Steven
Thanks Steven
Old way: Here you get the container to the target like a dumb bomb and before release, program the container to burst open at a certain altitude….dropped like dumb iron using visual bombing or radar bombing and dumb area submunitions. They scatter and what ever they kill or what ever the dud rate is, so be it.
Newer way: Use a “smart container” like WCMD, to get the container there, and still use dumb area submunitions.
Even newer way: Use a smart container like WCMD and have “smart area weapons” that come out of it when it bursts open.
WCMD
is a GPS assisting tail kit that is attached to Cluster Bomb containers like CBU-87,-89, and -97, 105. This way a CBU can be released from extreme height, and miles away and still hit where the Ground FAC or other targeting source provider indicates. WCMD means that you have a good chance of getting the container there in bad weather, you can launch it from farther away ( less aircrew risk ) and it can drive through a 100 mph + wind shear on the way down, correct for it and still break open over the target.Substituting, a “smart area weapon” SFW ( Sensor Fused Weapons ( BLU-108 ) ) also known as “skeets” instead of a “dumb area weapon like conventional cluster submunitions for deployment by the CBU does several things:
Each “skeet” that comes out of the CBU when it bursts open, falls down and a chute is deployed so it spends more time in the air, using a multi-sensor method to aquire ground vehicles or other types of targets and when it does, shoots out and attacks the target, destroying it. This WCMD, SFW combo, would be CBU-97 or 105. Although pricey, SFW technology doesn’t leave duds laying around afterword for kids or friendlies to get killed by afterward.
SFW Video ( large .wmv file )
The old way of “dumb area weapon” submunitions means you have to do a bombing profile not unlike dumb iron, requiring good visibility or a radar return ( or nearby radar return for offset bombing ) in order to deliver the weapon. Bad thing is that if there is no radar bombing, then that means fair weather only. Either way you are depending on a ballistic fall of a dumb weapon which can put you in the engagement zone of AAA, small SAMs / MANPADs, trashfire. Other things like a bad toss ( in the loft toss mode ) or high wind could put you off target.
Unfortunately a lot of submunitions used by JSOW and the Army’s MLRS are “dumb area weapons” and you don’t want to send friendly troops into one of these areas after hitting something. Bad news all the way around. One MLRS story I heard was a little friendly Iraqi girl picked up one of these dumb area weapon/MLRS sub munition UXBs ( remnants of a fire mission on an area south of the Baghdad Airport ) and took it over to a couple U.S. Army guys and it went off. The girl and one of the GIs were killed instantly. “Dumb area weapons” have bought more than a few wheelchairs for people. The old dumb area weapons were a good idea for the old Fulda Gap scenario, but thats about it.
nonpilotMirage 5?
Hi Camaro
What kind of shape are the PAF’s Mirage 5’s in?
actually, the whole air force could operate only with Su-25 for CAS and Mig-29SMT for everything else, it would cut its costs quite a lot.
now…does anybody want to buy our used M2k ? M53P2 powered and RDM equipped? i hope so.
sure M2k operate cheap, but for the price of a french fuel control unit, you can buy a complete RD-33, and about 10 russian weapons for every french one, and the felling in latin america is sure not to thrust the french (je m’excuse les francais mais c-est vrai) that’s why chile for example discarded the M2k-5 (among other reasons). the have seen what happened to the peruvians, not a good feeling.
both the Su-22 and the M2k can drop LGB’s the Su-22 can fire the KH-58 and R-73, the M2k the AM-39 exocet, magic-2 but no MICA, to do so it requires changing the radar from RDM to RDY at a price of 7 millions each 😮 FAP cannot afford this, but upgrading the Mig from N-019 to N-019M1 and R-77 capable, didnt cost much, i dont know exactly how much but it wasnt 7 millions, no way in hell.
another point…is true, FAP likes very much the Mig-29 over the M2k, soon as they arrived, they met on a massive exercise and the Migs won, now we’re talking about pilots with the same level of training etc, so it was a fair fight. 😎
now, part of the new deal with the russians is to improve the Mig-29 even farther, maybe to SMT, nobody knows.
i agree with you srbin and holger, the SMT will make the other weapons platforms redundant and will be time to get red of them, a small but highly professional hi-tech air force is what peru needs, so yes the combo Su-25 Mig-29SMT will do the trick to me,
lets just hope that the peruvian government will listen to its pilots :rolleyes:
cheers to all.
Camaro.
nonpilotSu-25 vs Su-22 Peruvian
Hi Camaro
Are the weapons system on Peru’s Su-25’s capable of firing advance air to ground missiles or smart bombs? If so wouldn’t they be able to preform the same missions that the Fritters? I’m sure the Russians drop this aircraft for a reason. In the 1995 war if Su-25’s were used instead of the Fritters would it have changed anything? Thanks Steven
nonpilotMig-29 9.13
Hi Camaro
I never knew they were C Fulcrums I always thought the Fulcrums Peru bought were A models.
>they are all Fulcrum-C (9-13) even those from bielorussia, and more, the gardenya system on the bielorussian models are better than those on the SE (downgraded) models bought directly from russia
I wonder what steps Peru’s air force are taking right now preparing for Chile’s future F-16’s. Is there an air force that flies both the Mig-29 and the F-16’s. I would like to read about mock combat between the two and sees who comes out on top more. I’m sure the Peruvian Fulcrums in training and in close must give the M2000 pilots nightmares. Camaro is there a web site I could check out that list all Fulcrum’s combat records? Thanks Steven
by the way, there are no mig-29 A in FAP, they are all Fulcrum-C (9-13) even those from bielorussia, and more, the gardenya system on the bielorussian models are better than those on the SE (downgraded) models bought directly from russia.
Camaro 😉
nonpilotSu-20/22 missions
Hi Camaro
I would have thought the range on the Su-25 would have been much better then the older Su-20/22’s but it really isn’t. I know the Fritter has a higher top speed but most combat is and and I would asume that ground attack missions to be under or around 500MPH. I guess it depends on what weapons system you have on the Su-25 (T model right?) but wouldn’t the Su-25 avionics in the much newer aircraft be able to put weapons on target? I think the Frogfoot’s would fare better against light hand held SAM’s. I’ve read so much on this aircraft I think I mighht have confused what the newer Su-39 model can do compared to what the Su-25 has done. I did read some stuff on it being used by the Russian air force in their current problems. I was surprise on the range of the Fritter and what it can do. Besides a few missed match air to air battles I don’t really know a lot about the Fritter. I’m sure Russia would have some higher end models just taking up space somewhere for bulk sale. You seem to know a lot about Peru’s air force tell me could the Su-25’s take the place of the A-37’s if more were bought. Is the Su-25 easy to maintain in the field? I have have tons more questions thanks, Steven
as our good friend aerospacetech (our avionics man here) said, russian radars are still behind western radars, not by far but still behind, they would have catch up but the lack of funding has and will keep them behind.
as for the Sukhois, remember that they are 2 diferent missions, the Su-22 its an “interdictor/strike” and the Su-25 is CAS, upgrades on the Su-22…what do you mean? a radar perhaps? no use as far as the mission, it is not a fighter in the sense of the Mig-29 or similar, its designed to attack very fast at very low altitude, deep behind enemy lines and destroy whatever surface equipment they have, and get the hell out of there, it has to be escorted because its self defense and maneouvrability are limited.
the solution FAP has chosen seems to be keep Mig-29 as a pure air to air, for multirole is enough with the M2000, so upgrading the radar to N-019M1 (not sure) was all they needed, transforming it into SMT would have been overly redundant not to say hyper expensive. 😮
between the M2000, Su-22 and Su-25, they have everything they need for the diferent surface targets they might choose, so all that was left was a pure air to air weapon to protect them, the Mig-29 as it is, is the answer they want, and seems to be the logical solution (mr. spok) 😉
Camaro.
nonpilotUpgraded Su-22’s
Hi Camaro
I’ve been interested in Peru’s air force since the 1995 war and how they did. I’m not going into the Mig-29A’s not being bought directly from Russia disaster but do the Russian upgrades work? I’m not a pilot but can you compare the newer radar in the Fulcrums to what block F-16? With the Fritter upgrade. Why with such poor range and many other short comings (70’s air frame) would the PAF waste what little money they have on upgrading their Fritter’s. Wouldn’t investing more into their Su-25’s or buying the newer Su-39’s be money better spent? If the PAF cut down the number of different types of aircraft it flew they could save on spare parts and training. If the Su-25’s (T’s) Peru has now can fly ground support missions and attack missions besides shooting down drug runners then they should move toward the Frogfoot. The Frogfoot just has more future then the older Su-20/22’s frames could handle even with upgrades. I’ve seen on the net where the Su-25SM or Su-39’s run in the range from $12 million to $19 million. I don’t really know how much they cost and what kind of package deals could be made. I’m sure some type of trade goods mixed in with training and maintenace equipment etc. For going after rebel’s, drug runners, cartels hired guns, and so on, on paper at least the Su-25/39 can perform these missions. I really don’t know how the Su-25 does against their older A-37B’s for COIN missions and time over the target area and operational cost. Don’t know how it fares in jungle regions with the heat and rain. I find it hard in general finding information on Peru’s military on the net in english and their governmnt seems tight lip. I wish I knew more about their government and their military in general. Getting back to the PAF, I guess it comes down to money the Su-25’s were a good step in the right direction but no money means no new aircraft or added training. Training is the key but it’s costly and the funding just isn’t there. Reading a flew stories about Peru’s military every now and then it’s seems they need triple the amount of helicopters they have more then they need a true frontline fighter and (50) Su-39’s, it would be nice. Thanks, Steven
=Ja Worsley]From what I have read lately the Faruzea Aerea del Peru don’t have the funds to upgrade their 29’s, they didn’t even fully upgrade their Su-22’s. With this in mind I dobut that they have enough money for such a high flight time for their pilots.[/QUOTE]
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